Concerns

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Little Dragon

Concerns

Post by Little Dragon » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:33 pm

I'd like to express some concerns that I have. I think I'll try to introduce them by quoting some things that some of you had said either here or on bring 4th. Please understand that I do NOT have an issue with the people I'm quoting or their saying it. I'm just using their words because I have had similar thoughts which have led me to these concerns.
Maybe I didn't understand the whole Harvest process, but by D'21'2012 at the latest, the Earth undergoes its own harvest into 4D...I'm assuming our chemical bodies follow along...meaning we all die physically...

If I remember correctly from the Wilcock site, the pole shift in 2012 and any events (CME's, tectonic plate enlargement/expansion, etc) is an extinction level event. Correct?...not just for 3D...but what we would consider most of 2D as well...

gdpetti
I've gotten the same impression from these sources. However, from my very limited explorations into the theory of holarchy, this is not necessarily the natural course of events.

The advent of 2D on Earth did not mean an end to 1D. The advent of 3D on Earth did not mean an end of 2D or 1D. Transcend AND include. In fact, from what we see from this level doesn't each level depend on the existance of those below it? The analogy may not hold as we move farther up but there seems to me to be plenty of reason to think it will. Humans may not be able to participate fully and permanently as 4D entities without dying, but that doesn't mean that 3D humans and their civilizations can't exist within a higher 4D holon, just as atoms (1D) and cells (2D) continue to exists within our 3D bodies.

More concerns may follow.

Little Dragon

Re: Concerns

Post by Little Dragon » Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:18 pm

More concerns:
BTW, when I am stating my opinions here, I should qualify that they are based on the assumption that Ra provided factual information

ZenMaster
We must also assume the Ra material may provide information that is not factual and not turn it into just another religious dogma.

Its been a long time since I've read Jane Roberts but I think there were times when Seth struggled to get a point across because of Jane's limited vocabulary. It is said that when we experience a "higher" state of consciousness we have to interpret it within our own world view, our own v-memes. Wouldn't that also be true with channeled information? Should we not also assume that it may be "colored" or limited by the receiver, even if that is not their intention?

Can we actually know that "Ra" is a "real", "out there" entity? Or just Carla's (?) subconscious, masquerading as a "higher density being" in order to get her to listen. (This doesn't mean that the message doesn't contain just as much "truth".)

I've actually tried calling on Ra, and got a response. But I don't know if it was from Ra or if I was having some half dream/half awake experience. Its a question that must remain open.

Further flights of fantasy:

I may have my channels mixed up, I'm thinking this was from Ra but I may be wrong. Anyway, the idea was that "negative" entities would reveal enough good and true information to gain your trust and them slip in some B.S., usually predictions about some impending catastrophe. The poor individual receiving this would run around spouting both, and when the end of the world as we know it failed to happen the truth gets discredited along with the BS.

Could this have happened with the Ra material? If the end of the world as we know it fails to materialize on schedule will that not discredit the Law of One for most people?

Flying even closer to the sun:

If we "accept" that the coming demise of the world is a fact, are we not in a sense, "asking" for it to happen? If we accept all these predictions that the earth is going to become uninhabitable, could we actually be helping that very event materialize out of the chaotic soup of probability? If someone else has a desire to move into our home, but can't unless we are willing to vacate it, could this be one way for them to get us to do it, of our own free will?

My wings are starting to melt.

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Re: Concerns

Post by Alluvion » Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:56 pm

little dragon,
post 1)and this bears something upon post 2 concerning these sources as credible, but, what I recall from the material is that the densities do exist within the same space, overlapped, simultaneous. But the active/potential condition of each realm changes, allowing evolving entities to be where they may within the universe. So at this time earth, which has been previously only yellow ray and so provided a class room primarily focused on the lessons of love, ethics and choice, is herself now transitioning into a realm of unconditional love which requires a a shift in the consitutents of active reality. I hope that doesn't sound to jargony, lemme continue: these bodies we are dealing with now, according to these sources, are the yellow ray bodies of the third density, they are the vehicles that best allow us to make choice and learn to choose - meaning they are part of these grand illusions, like seperation, and so allows us these experiences to learn. Green ray bodies must facilitate the experiences of unconditional love and the sharing of true being so the environment from which these arise, sort of like fractals, must be different - that is how I understand the shifting from active to potential and potential to active density charachteristics. TO me this makes sense, if one holds true to condonditional love then the 'body' one uses to experience this must be in harmy and exemplify this structural ideal or else it is not a 'body' or 'vehicle' of unconditional love. The channeled material often talks about how the upper densities remain invisible to the lower densitieis as part of the lessons of free will choosing and ethics, though the 4th can make itself visible to the 3rd but it chooses not too, allowing those experiencing the free will of the third density to do so for their personal evolution, without the unconsidered violation of free will by beings of the upper densities. I think of it as a safe guard against confusion, kind of like a text book analogy I used a while ago - in chapter 3 we are learning certain lessons and will have a test at the end, but the pages are turning regardless of how well we've progressed or done our homework so we will either pass the test and be ready for information from chapter 4, which does include and build upon chapter 3 (but requires some mastery of chapter 3) or we will not pass the test and spend more time within the chapter 3 of another book (or, 'fall behind' the rest of the class, bad analogy here I hope you get my point). The death associated with these yellow ray vehicles I think is more associated with the transition of the planet during this harvest, remember that according to this information there have been many previous harvests during steady density durations. But now there is a harvest at the same time there is a density transition, harmonic overlap - so not only is this test the end of chapter 3, its the end of chapter 3 in this edition of the book, so to speak.

post2): Flight of fancy,
well this is what this grand game is all about eh :) ? What do you beleive and what do you not beleive? why? who are you and why are you here? What is truth to you? what is untruth to you? Those are questions you must ask and you must seek out, and of course none of these sources are the absolute sources. It could all be fake. It could all be an elaborate ruse, purused and invested in for decades. Could be. But that doesn't mean it is. Or isnt - law of confusion/free will. Kind of twisted to reference the material in question eh?

But consider the material within these channeling and the material that humanity has generated WAY before their inception and run a cross reference with what you beleive, with what your world view is. I do that all the time with this material mostly because so much of it rings true and has been part of me changing in such dramatic ways I have to WORK to not just take it all as truth spoon fed without consideration.
In the yearly channeling meditations that carla and the avalon group does those entities have for quite a while begun each session by elaborately re-stating they don't beleive they are the aboslute givers of truth, that each must find truth within their self and to use discrimination. I don't think anyone here, nor should anyone here, think that this information is infallible or dogmatic and the only correct information. As the entities being channeled say, they are just another set of opinions and information being shared.

as for carla being a lense or filter for the information, this is exactley the case. These lense or filter is not just her worldview but language itself, as the information clearly shows during the sessions. Language both connects and limits connections by its very nature, which is why language fosters the lessons of love - choice. What does that mean? do I beleive that? I don't understand that, do I care to understand it? SO if something feels off to you, seek that out, follow it like a path. If something feel absolutely right consider why, rejoice in it, see where it leads you - ra material or no ra material. I've had this talk with lonebear a few times, what about all the people who've never come across this information? how can they be prepared? My misconception is that this information is priveledged or inaccessible by those who aren't receiving it in the same manner - but humanity has been around much longer than this set of documents and these forums and people have been seeking these questions and living the mysterious paths since as long as we've been here, so they must find some things that get them where they need to be. Of course in accepting truths from this information it becomes part of ones worldview but the truths I keep finding in this worldview are not ones that seek to erase over the beleifs and blindness' of others, but instead put the responsibility just upon myself and so upon the individual to live and learn.

as for our free will and its interaction with whatever coming changes might be coming, I think it again depends on perspective. There are many things we see and think we truly know but we are only looking at shallow, superficial information without understanding the deep nature of the sources of that superficial display. We could just see a catastrophic tsunami but that doesn't mean that all happened or is connected with that event was the tsunami. But to accept the information of these channelings, the transition of earth is an act of this entities free will and destiny (! really now....) so I don't think we could stop it if we wanted, make it difficult and rather unpleasent - most definately! we know very well how to do that. I am sure this could've been said in a much more consice and axiomatic way, so if some one has that info, please contribute!

Love,
Adam

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Re: Concerns

Post by LoneBear » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:09 pm

Little Dragon wrote:The advent of 2D on Earth did not mean an end to 1D. The advent of 3D on Earth did not mean an end of 2D or 1D. Transcend AND include. In fact, from what we see from this level doesn't each level depend on the existance of those below it?
That is the way that I understand it.
Little Dragon wrote:The analogy may not hold as we move farther up but there seems to me to be plenty of reason to think it will.
Nehru has postulated that there can only be 3 "independent" dimensions; anything beyond those three are "dependent" upon the "independent" ones. This would suggest that only here, in a 3d environment, we have full "independence", and that the higher densities/dimensions continue to be dependent upon this experience (thought not necessarily visible to it).
Little Dragon wrote:Humans may not be able to participate fully and permanently as 4D entities without dying, but that doesn't mean that 3D humans and their civilizations can't exist within a higher 4D holon, just as atoms (1D) and cells (2D) continue to exists within our 3D bodies.
There is evidence that a person CAN transition directly from 3D to 4D without having to go thru the death/rebirth experience. The way it works is basic; you don't have to wait to die in 3rd density, to be born in 4th density. So pick some "4d parents" now, and get them busy making a baby--your 4d body. Then your consciousness can co-exist in both 3rd density and 4th density physical vehicles (Confederation sources refer to this as "dual-activated"), though you will not be able to accomplish much until the 4d body grows up a bit. When the time comes for you to make the transition, you just let go of the 3rd density aspect, and become fully 4th density "activated."

(Just remember that the prerequisite for this is that you have nothing to "work on" in your after-death experience, so there is no point to making that stopover.)

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Re: Concerns

Post by LoneBear » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:44 pm

Little Dragon wrote:Can we actually know that "Ra" is a "real", "out there" entity? Or just Carla's (?) subconscious, masquerading as a "higher density being" in order to get her to listen. (This doesn't mean that the message doesn't contain just as much "truth".)
Let me ask you this, "Does it matter if Ra is real?"

I ask because if a message has truth, does it actually matter who the delivery boy is?

Last summer, BlueEagle and I had a long discussion about how subjective "truth" can be, and how "truth" changes with knowledge and experience. One person's truth is another's fallacy; so see what the sources have to offer at the time you encounter them. Sometimes it is a matter of trusting the Universe to put you in the right place, at the right time.
Little Dragon wrote:I may have my channels mixed up, I'm thinking this was from Ra but I may be wrong. Anyway, the idea was that "negative" entities would reveal enough good and true information to gain your trust and them slip in some B.S., usually predictions about some impending catastrophe. The poor individual receiving this would run around spouting both, and when the end of the world as we know it failed to happen the truth gets discredited along with the BS.
When Carla teaches channeling, she makes it a point to always "challenge" any contact that approaches, to verify if they are positive or negative. I believe there is some detailed information in her Channeling Handbook that might be of value to you.
Little Dragon wrote:Could this have happened with the Ra material? If the end of the world as we know it fails to materialize on schedule will that not discredit the Law of One for most people?
The most Ra ever said was some "minor inconveniences." Really doesn't sound like the end of the world scenario.

If you are referring to David Wilcock's works -- he IS a member of this forum, and would be the one to fill in the details based on his research.
Little Dragon wrote:Flying even closer to the sun:
Nice to know that you CAN soar that high...
Little Dragon wrote:If we "accept" that the coming demise of the world is a fact, are we not in a sense, "asking" for it to happen? If we accept all these predictions that the earth is going to become uninhabitable, could we actually be helping that very event materialize out of the chaotic soup of probability? If someone else has a desire to move into our home, but can't unless we are willing to vacate it, could this be one way for them to get us to do it, of our own free will?
Interesting point, and most likely on the Orion "To Do" list.

I, for one, am not going anywhere. And I'd bet the rest of the Elder Race isn't going anywhere, either. If someone else wants this planet for themselves, then they will have the Alliance and the Rangers to deal with--here. A contingency we CAN plan for. If the worst happens, you are ready for it. If nothing happens, then you're stuck with the best mind/body/spirit complex you can have. Looks like a win-win situation to me.

I only accept that "change" is coming; in the physical, in the mind, and in the spirit.

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Re: Concerns

Post by Alluvion » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:22 pm

thank you lone bear, simpler and better!

_Adam

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Re: Concerns

Post by lvx08 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:39 am

Hi

I'm quoting 3 separate posts here :-)
WarmSylph wrote:thank you lone bear, simpler and better!

_Adam
Hi Adam

I was thinking when I was reading your post above, that when you write long posts (which often can be quite complex !!!) it would make it easier to read if you could break it up into paragraphs of 4-5 lines. That way your reader is not confronted with a whole screen of words that have no line breaks. Just a request , hope that's OK
WarmSylph wrote:I've actually tried calling on Ra, and got a response. But I don't know if it was from Ra or if I was having some half dream/half awake experience. Its a question that must remain open.
I call on Ra all the time, every night before I sleep and sometimes before I meditate. Seeing they said in the LoO that they answer a call, I figured it wouldnt hurt to ask for help. I sure need it. If I remember to ask for dream guidance, (and also to be able to remember it) I always dream.
LoneBear wrote:There is evidence that a person CAN transition directly from 3D to 4D without having to go thru the death/rebirth experience. The way it works is basic; you don't have to wait to die in 3rd density, to be born in 4th density. So pick some "4d parents" now, and get them busy making a baby--your 4d body. Then your consciousness can co-exist in both 3rd density and 4th density physical vehicles (Confederation sources refer to this as "dual-activated"), though you will not be able to accomplish much until the 4d body grows up a bit. When the time comes for you to make the transition, you just let go of the 3rd density aspect, and become fully 4th density "activated."

(Just remember that the prerequisite for this is that you have nothing to "work on" in your after-death experience, so there is no point to making that stopover.)
This is another of your mind-boggling remarks, Lonebear. I would assume you'd need help from your 6D self (higher or magical self) to pull this off. And then it raises all these questions for me viz.
Are there already 4d people on earth to choose to be your parents? Or would they have to be from another world. The transition from 3d to 4d would involve death of the 3d body wouldn't it? How do know if you have nothing to work on after your death? Would that mean releasing all karma while in this incarnation or is it a matter of processing this life's experiences before death. It might be quite nice to be disincarnate for awhile.

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Post by BlueEagle » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:08 pm

It might be quite nice to be disincarnate for awhile.
Lol, take a "karmic vacation", not a bad idea.

Wouldn't this "dual-activation" cause some slightly strange side effcts for the 3d body?
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Re: Concerns

Post by LoneBear » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:12 pm

lvx08 wrote:I would assume you'd need help from your 6D self (higher or magical self) to pull this off. And then it raises all these questions for me viz.
I don't really see any necessity for the 6D self to get involved. It is a simple, conscious choice. You incarnated to learn a few things, based on a pre-incarnative decision. If you complete the learning you selected for yourself, you don't have to "stay after school" in the afterlife to finish the work you didn't do here. The only other reason to be there is to make a 'pre-incarnative choice', so why put that off, when you can make that decision here and now, as well?
lvx08 wrote:Are there already 4d people on earth to choose to be your parents? Or would they have to be from another world.
There are 4d entities here on Earth that would love to have kids; particularly smart ones. Just remember that they are not yet visible to 3rd density.
lvx08 wrote:The transition from 3d to 4d would involve death of the 3d body wouldn't it?
That depends on how you define "death." "Death" has the connotation of transitioning into the afterlife to do more work there. Yes, it is true that when you make the transition, your 3d body will no longer be animated, and will revert back to basic chemicals. I think of the 3d body like a can of juice. Once you have gotten all the nutrition out of it, then the container, itself, does not have any further use, so you just chuck it in the recycle bin and move on.
lvx08 wrote:How do know if you have nothing to work on after your death? Would that mean releasing all karma while in this incarnation or is it a matter of processing this life's experiences before death.
The lack of "pending karmic work" tends to become obvious, because you start getting presented with almost unlimited choices on where to go with your life -- in other words, "karma" is no longer picking your path to get things resolved. You have to decide for your self where you will walk next.

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Re: ...

Post by LoneBear » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:18 pm

BlueEagle wrote:Wouldn't this "dual-activation" cause some slightly strange side effcts for the 3d body?
Ocassionally, the 4d half does have to block an overly-curious 3d half from seeing too much, too soon. And that can take any number of forms, from simple distraction to complete isolation. And usually the fear the 4d half generates when blocking is very effective -- until the 3d half understands itself enough to replace the fear with curiousity and love.

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Re: Concerns

Post by lvx08 » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:21 pm

LoneBear wrote: I don't really see any necessity for the 6D self to get involved. It is a simple, conscious choice. You incarnated to learn a few things, based on a pre-incarnative decision. If you complete the learning you selected for yourself, you don't have to "stay after school" in the afterlife to finish the work you didn't do here. The only other reason to be there is to make a 'pre-incarnative choice', so why put that off, when you can make that decision here and now, as well?
I guess I have the belief (which could be totally wrong) that post death one has access to more "information" - seeing the recent incarnation in its entirety (and also with more detachment than when living it) and also access to previous incarnations. This would probably facilitate making a choice for the next incarnation. I guess you could start doing the groundwork by establishing some rapport with 4d entities.

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Re: Concerns

Post by Alluvion » Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:22 am

so how might one go about contacting and interacting with invisible and non-material 'entities' - thats one concept that still boggles me, how are beings individuated without the weight and clamour of the body? I know its part of the big lesson here too, still blows my mind. But makes sense as the goal.

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Re: Concerns

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:46 pm

lvx08 wrote:I guess I have the belief (which could be totally wrong) that post death one has access to more "information" - seeing the recent incarnation in its entirety (and also with more detachment than when living it) and also access to previous incarnations. This would probably facilitate making a choice for the next incarnation.
Most people don't understand that "dying" isn't a simple thing! According to the Bardo Thodol (the Tibetean Book of the Dead) , it takes 49 days before you finally make the transition, and during that time, MANY things are experienced as part of the transition process. There are basically three stages:

Bardo 1: Figuring out that you are dead. Meeting deceased friends and relatives, then meeting the evil doers.

Bardo 2: Life review; karma. Here you choose between the Vorlons (heaven) or the Shadows (hell) -- or figure it out and move on.

Bardo 3: Selection and rebirth into a new life.

Even the Thodol says these steps are not necessary; their Pali Ti-Pitaka records several instances of rebirth immediately after death on the human plane. I suppose it just comes down to when you want to do the work, now or later.
lvx08 wrote:I guess you could start doing the groundwork by establishing some rapport with 4d entities.
First, establish a rapport with yourself, then move yourself into 4d. They (4d entities) aren't going to do the work for you.

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Re: Concerns

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:49 pm

WarmSylph wrote:so how might one go about contacting and interacting with invisible and non-material 'entities'
Telepathy.
WarmSylph wrote:thats one concept that still boggles me, how are beings individuated without the weight and clamour of the body? I know its part of the big lesson here too, still blows my mind. But makes sense as the goal.
Remember that the body is just a projection of your "personality" (or as GhostCat says, "identity") into the physical.

"When the mind is enlightened, the spirit is freed; the body matters not."
--Oma Desala

Become enlightened.

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Re: Concerns

Post by Alluvion » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:20 pm

thanks again.
My consciouss mind still holds on to subject-object constructed viewpoints when I don't understand something, I know integrating and moving beyond that is the point so thats brings me to my next question:

you say that to contact entities of the 4th density, which means being who now exist to learn the lessons of unconditional love and compassion, use telepathy.

So, my subject-object mind goes well if they aren't physical how do I accurately aim my data laser?

But other parts of my mind think its more of a radial thing, a condition of my whole self (the radiation of thought?).
So how does one contact an indidivual being of non-local location? I mean to say, I don't conscioussly have any 4d buddies entered into my little black phone book so I can dial out but how can I decide who picks up?

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Re: Concerns

Post by LoneBear » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:48 am

WarmSylph wrote:My consciouss mind still holds on to subject-object constructed viewpoints when I don't understand something
There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize that they are two sides of the same coin. Subjective is "spatial" (inside looking out); objective is "counterspatial" (outside looking in).
WarmSylph wrote:you say that to contact entities of the 4th density, which means being who now exist to learn the lessons of unconditional love and compassion, use telepathy.

So, my subject-object mind goes well if they aren't physical how do I accurately aim my data laser?
The fundamental law of the universe is "motion" -- things are either drawn or repelled. You just create the environment where you are drawn together, and leave the death rays to Darth Vader.
WarmSylph wrote:But other parts of my mind think its more of a radial thing, a condition of my whole self (the radiation of thought?).
If, by "radial", you mean like a sphere of consciousness, then yes.
WarmSylph wrote:So how does one contact an indidivual being of non-local location?
Make your contact from the inverse domain, where they ARE local.
WarmSylph wrote:I mean to say, I don't conscioussly have any 4d buddies entered into my little black phone book so I can dial out but how can I decide who picks up?
For every piece of velcro there are "hooks" and "stick patches" (neurotic structures). You arrange them in the sequence to attract or repel what you desire; it is the underlying principle of ceremonial magic, and also a bit like dialing the Stargate -- activate the symbols in the right sequence, deactive others, and something will come along that will match up. Maybe not right away... in 3rd density we are still bound to causality, so early on you'll only get an approximate match, but later on, things refine out.

Sounds a lot like "dating", doesn't it? That's the thing about the Law of One -- same rules, same principles apply everywhere.

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Re: Concerns

Post by Alluvion » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:14 pm

the process of process - the spiral.

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Concerns

Post by Starlight* » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:14 am

Thanks guys!

This facilitates things :D .

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