The Purpose of the Anla'shok

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BlueEagle
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The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by BlueEagle » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:13 pm

The original idea of the Anla’shok, in Babylon 5, was to gather intelligence, keep a watchful eye on the comming darkness, and to protect one another and the innocent and wronged.

In essence, this will be the purpose of the Anla’shok. The Rangers will travel, attempting to find any who may be looking for the truth, the light, or may even be one of the Ancient Ones.

However, a major idea incorporated into finding the lost must be that one cannot make a person listen to or believe anything. The act of forcing information upon the unwilling can only further a person’s unwillingness to listen. The person must want to know, they must ask the question first.

Gathering intelligence will also be important. The nature of the intelligence will be determined by the needs of the Alliance. Rangers will also be messengers, from and to different people and places.

Last but not least, to protect one another and the wronged and weak. The Anla’shok is One, one heart beat, one soul, one common cause. To change the world around us, we must give of ourselves.

- - BlueEagle
“No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear, we are one. Here gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognize this singular truth and this singular rule. That we must be kind to one another. Because each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice loss diminishes us. We are the voice of the universe. The soul of creation. The fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one. We are one” - - G’kar Babylon 5

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To Serve Mankind? Sounds like a cookbook to me...

Post by LoneBear » Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:46 pm

BlueEagle wrote:Last but not least, to protect one another and the wronged and weak.
Points to consider here are the effects of Karma and Free Will. To protect one another would be a knowing, intelligent act between the Rangers, and as such, is free of karmic reprocussions for those who used their free will in that decision.

But the problem area is the "other"--DO you step in and help the wronged and weak, KNOWING that they are most likely in that situation of victimization because of past karma they are trying to compensate for? Thus, to protect the wronged and weak would be to do them a dis-service, for you are preventing them from learning the lessons they incarnated for. (Conscious life isn't easy, nor seldom as clear as black-and-white).

Often, when you set out to "right a wrong" for someone else, you have just "identified" with their problem--in other words, their problem is the same, or very similar, to a problem you have of your own, which may not be conscious. Thus, the quest to right the wrong isn't done for THEM, but for yourself! Since you act for yourself, who is truely the "weaker", them, or you?

The only clear-cut answer I have found in "helping others" is to help them to learn about themselves, who they are, what they can do, what tools they have available to them. Then, THEY can do the work, and become fellow pioneers in the Great Work--but they must use their free will to do so. Many people receive the opportunity to advance themselves; FEW take it. Why? Because to do the work yourself requires you take responsibility for yourself, and imposes a duty on you to provide such service when asked. And often, it is not very convenient.

There is an old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he has food for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he has food for a lifetime." I would think the Rangers, rather than protecting the wronged and weak, would need to Teach them to see the system behind WHY they are in the situation they are, so they can pull themselves out and stand tall. There is nothing wrong with helping a person to stand -- as long as you don't spend your life carrying them.

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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:13 am

Lone Bear wrote:But the problem area is the "other"--DO you step in and help the wronged and weak, KNOWING that they are most likely in that situation of victimization because of past karma they are trying to compensate for? Thus, to protect the wronged and weak would be to do them a dis-service, for you are preventing them from learning the lessons they incarnated for. (Conscious life isn't easy, nor seldom as clear as black-and-white).
It is my understanding that the concept of compassion is an effect of the disparity of the ego's concept of rightness with the higher Self's perfectly balanced attitude of the situation. The same wisdom that seems to owe its essence to the working out of the analogous operation of seemingly multiple aspects of reality, as a single aspect of reality, is probably the same source of karma that is being dealt with. What does this mean? Karma is generated by an offset position inside a subjective reality that can be within a historical, allegorical, metaphorical, physical, or symbolic context, for example. What one understands of these aspects with respect to a situation is what one tends to base their actions upon. It would seem that only if one's actions have not perfectly encapsulated another's reality offset does the action not generate unknown repercussions. In the end, if you lack a certain purity of intention then you will only be providing yourself with some opportunity to learn what is lacking and perhaps providing this to the other to the extent that they can share in the same "implicit questioning".
LoneBear wrote:Often, when you set out to "right a wrong" for someone else, you have just "identified" with their problem--in other words, their problem is the same, or very similar, to a problem you have of your own, which may not be conscious. Thus, the quest to right the wrong isn't done for THEM, but for yourself! Since you act for yourself, who is truely the "weaker", them, or you?
Is it simply the case of rounding up unfullfilled aspects of the self on an completely even playing field? Surely we participate in this life with commonalities of understanding which gives the illusion of an even playing field, but is the knowledge aspect of this reality a suitible determinant for what is stronger or weaker on a broader scope? For if we make this evaluation aren't we confining our judgement to the level of a hopelessly ambiguous illusion?
I'd say yes and that identification of a "problem" makes the perceiver equaly as weak as you were questioning. The perceived advantage at "knowing" better is in effect complete attachment to the illusion. I do not see how it can be any other way. What we are talking about here is a "circumstantial vantage point" that, by its nature, can not have roots in the more primary understanding of how or why the illusion is manifest, for example.
Lone Bear wrote: Many people receive the opportunity to advance themselves; FEW take it. Why? Because to do the work yourself requires you take responsibility for yourself, and imposes a duty on you to provide such service when asked. And often, it is not very convenient.
All people receive the opportunity to advance themselves. It's a matter of intent and will as to what is actually made of the opportunity. Recognition of duty is a natural consequence of the connection to the true will aspect of reality which is not generally an obvious path given the distractions that other catalysts demand. I guess it is important to understand that convenience is an illusion created by limited focus, not that that understanding would necessarily point to a better way of prioritizing one's efforts. As I was saying over in the Bring4th forum, there is a goldmining opportunity within this illusion as far as exploring how our doubts and fears reflect the lack of understanding of who we are. What once was considered "suffering" is transformed into a "joyful" process as an attitude of participation and a connection develops.
Lone Bear wrote:There is an old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he has food for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he has food for a lifetime." I would think the Rangers, rather than protecting the wronged and weak, would need to Teach them to see the system behind WHY they are in the situation they are, so they can pull themselves out and stand tall. There is nothing wrong with helping a person to stand -- as long as you don't spend your life carrying them.
I don't think there is any "trick" to the effective communication required to allow a person to allow a novel perspective that leads them to a new understanding which ultimately results in a more independent operation for both the learner and teacher. The dialog involved is the sharing of and assimilation of offered potential. Both sides must be transformed somehow by the teaching/learning in order for new information to flow.

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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:36 pm

As LoneBear pointed out, ethics is based on the observation of how nature behaves. It is funny how nature changes how it behaves in accordance with our attitudes. Wait a minute, does nature change its rules of behavior in this manner? How would we know otherwise?

The mythology associated with the knight's code of chilvary has already run its course. While it's an expression that can be carried forward with various applications, it is an expression intrinsically incapable of operating within a holistic ethic, for example. Therefore what is the advantage or efficacy to the metaphor?

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We All Learn

Post by BlueEagle » Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:00 pm

Knowing what circumstances are placed on individual in a situation, is impossible, as you cannot have complete knowledge of who they are, or why they are there. In that, we have limited view and so limited ability to act on their part, for risk of depriving them of what they need to learn through their situation.

The Code of Chivalry is, as you are correct, an expression. It cannot be directly applied, because of its basis in man created ideals. But our ideals are created using the basics of the universe (nature). The expression is used in a way to identify with “common knowledge” of what it used to mean. The purpose of this place is to ask why those ideals were set that way, and what is conceptually wrong with them.

But what ethics are we held to, if not our “conceptual” ideas of right and wrong? We are held to the ethics and laws of nature, indeed, by the origins of our system and being. But are we held to a higher level of ethics? I believe that our level of understanding leads us to a different level of ethics. A dog does not have the same ethics as we do, because it does not have the same understanding. We can understand that a couch is an object that has material value to its owner, and is in a different environment than a tree for example. A dog may not understand this, to him; it is just another part of his environment. Our differences in perception allow us to see beyond our own basic needs.

But in acting towards another’s needs, we are acting on our own needs. Is there a truly selfless act? If not, than we are truly bound by:

1. Unknown circumstances in a situation
a. Karmic
b. Ethical
2. Every act is most likely a selfish act
3. Depriving the person of karmic learning experience
4. Inability to help those who will not ask

Lone Bear wrote:
… the Rangers, rather than protecting the wronged and weak, would need to Teach them to see the system behind WHY they are in the situation they are, so they can pull themselves out and stand tall…
We cannot teach those who do not want to know, and those who do want to know must ask before we can fully give. The restraint on what we can do for others is great, due to karmic repercussions and free will of those we would most want to help.

Thus, by realizing that our view of others is so limited, we cannot by any ethical, karmic, or giving reasons interfere with those who would not ask of us.

With this, I offer two situations;

While walking down an alley, you hear a scream. Do you investigate, knowing you most likely have the skills to deal with the situation? (The question I believe here is why would the universe have you at this spot at this time? The Karmic results of any action could be grave.)

and

A trustworthy person comes to you asking for information that might save a life. Do you give the information? Even if you know some of the circumstances, you cannot know all of them including the karmic situation. Again, why did this person come to you?

Despite all this, there will be those we can help, because they will ask. We can show compassion not by tearing down walls, or by taking out the local rough guys, but by kindness, by a smile, by living and teaching love. The Universe was born out of true wisdom and love. We must always think before we act, and question in silence before we think. But I believe that there is a higher standard of love and ethics and wisdom, by which the Rangers may make our mark in silence.
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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:47 pm

BlueEagle wrote:Even if you know some of the circumstances, you cannot know all of them including the karmic situation.
But you can know all of the circumstances that are relevant to your intentions. If you do not know, then the question, that you are an expression of, is ambiguously asked. It is my understanding that one's clear intent is all that matters as far as excersing an appropriate action is concerned. Whether you identify your actions as seeking "truth" or serving others, for example, one is limited by one's understanding. A code is irrelevant because it does little to promote understanding. In fact, it must constrain and hinder the development of consciousness by its very nature. At best it can temporarily act as another assumption as we are bound by our identification with it and are not fully aware of its effectiveness. Also, do we need an agreement that air is good to breathe before we breathe? I think we need to get back to figuring out how nature works. It is my understanding that the purpose of being is to experience and to promote consciousness (and to continually explore the best means to do it). Isn't what you are saying "we've found the best way to do it", "now lets do it this way."? This is an expression of meaning which is one step away from identification with what seems to be a very limited illusion.

My thoughts are something along the lines of determining the most basic, general principles of the universe that are self-evident, then, from that point, step into the illusion (albeit still a shared illusion, or an agreed upon illusion) and proceed to work out the beneficial limitating perspectives, moving in order from general principles to specific principles. The result would be different from a code, because it would have the capability of only expressing those values (limitations) which are agreed to be necessary.

For example, we could say there might be a number of basic principles in the universe (the concepts of unification and seperation, perhaps). Therefore, we'd want to follow the wisdom that utilizes these principles in a manner that increases the general purpose of experiencing and promoting consciousness. As an individual we create a knowledge system (world view) as a vehicle for consciousness. And we are nothing but an expression of this consciousness. The only difference now is that there is the concept of group added to this general purpose. Now as a group, you'd want to fully discover and utilize the advantages of group structure and group dynamics for this general purpose. This cooperative mode of being involves creating, accessing, and applying shared knowledge systems that serve as a vehicle of consciousness.

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Nature's nature

Post by LoneBear » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:14 am

zenmaster wrote:As LoneBear pointed out, ethics is based on the observation of how nature behaves. It is funny how nature changes how it behaves in accordance with our attitudes. Wait a minute, does nature change its rules of behavior in this manner? How would we know otherwise?
It isn't Nature's nature to change as much as it is Nature's nature to grow. The underlying rules for the various densities acting upon Nature remain fixed within this octave and logos of existence. That's the nature of the beast.

It goes back to the old religious argument between angels and demons; angels promoting order (the Vorlons) and the demons promoting chaos (the Shadows). The question they pondered was "if the demons promote chaos, then they must live what they promote, and therefore cannot have any organization within themselves, because that would be 'order', and a direct violation of their philosophy". Change, without order (codification, as zenmaster mentions later on), is chaos. Chaotic systems do not evolve--they randomize--evolution requires an ordered system.

Nature doesn't change its rules of behavior; they remain constant as demonstrated by the postulates of the Reciprocal System, "its magnitudes are absolute". What we perceive as "change" are snapshots of a flow of the ordered evolution of consciousness.
The mythology associated with the knight's code of chilvary has already run its course. While it's an expression that can be carried forward with various applications, it is an expression intrinsically incapable of operating within a holistic ethic, for example. Therefore what is the advantage or efficacy to the metaphor?
The Code of Chilvary is based on the 5th density concepts of duty and honor, and probably a leftover from the teachings of the Law of One. Since we are just touching upon 4th density, I would not consider 5th density concepts to have "run their course." Ignored, maybe, misunderstood, good possibility, but still very applicable.

The advantage of the metaphor is that we are still 3rd density beings; the archetypes represented within the Code of Chilvary represent some of the highest ideals mankind has reached within its recorded history, and are still very active upon mankind today. Do not so easily discount motifs that are only a couple of centuries old, within the 75 millennia of 3rd density existance. They don't disappear that quickly!

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Re: We All Learn

Post by LoneBear » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:06 pm

BlueEagle wrote:Knowing what circumstances are placed on individual in a situation, is impossible, as you cannot have complete knowledge of who they are, or why they are there.
Actually, you can know all the circumstances involving other people or things. The process is called "gnosis" (the "knowing"). But it takes all the fun out of interaction. Would you play a game of chess, not only knowing the outcome, but exactly every single move that would be made in the game? Boring...!

3rd density is the density of choice. We are here to learn to exercise our free will in a highly polarized environment. An like in any "training" situation, the more it is exercised, the stronger it becomes. And since we are all made of that "star stuff" of the Universe, what we gain the Universe also gains.
BlueEagle wrote:In that, we have limited view and so limited ability to act on their part, for risk of depriving them of what they need to learn through their situation.
Unless that deprivation is part of what they need to learn!

Nobody ever said that the conscious path was easy. Understand that WE ARE NOT PERFECT. We will do things that are right, we will do things that are wrong. In the overall picture, everything will eventually balance out thru the interaction of karma. But the purpose is to MAKE choices. To exercise your free will, to make it stronger, and help the Universe become stronger with you. It wants the same things you do, since you were created to help it figure itself out. So figure yourself out, and you are doing the Universe a favor!

The choices you make are determined by your "rational valuing system", as psychologists call it. There are two: thinking and feeling. Often, what is the logical course of action feels quite wrong. This is a GOOD thing, because it means that you are seeing both sides of the coin. It is the struggle to make the final choice that helps you grow. This is where the Code of Chilvary, and other codes of ethics, come into play. They provide a historical basis for how these decisions were made before -- and they provide a "what happened" when those decisions WERE made, so you get an example of the outcome. The "codes" end up being a collection of decisions that actually resulted in fulfilling the purpose of the 3rd density of existence, set to symbols so they would be remembered in the future.
BlueEagle wrote:But what ethics are we held to, if not our “conceptual” ideas of right and wrong?

Right and wrong are the functional aspects of good and bad. Do you recall my definition of good and bad?

Good (right): I get what I want.
Bad (wrong): I don't get what I want.

Your ethics, and service path, are determined by what it IS that you "want."

Ever wonder why the Shadows ask the question, "what do you want?" You can see the answer in this simple definition of good and bad.
BlueEagle wrote:We cannot teach those who do not want to know, and those who do want to know must ask before we can fully give. The restraint on what we can do for others is great, due to karmic repercussions and free will of those we would most want to help.
People do not always pose the "question" in spoken English. Hear the question asked by the Spirit, not the mouth. There are times when someone will just look you in the eye without muttering a sound or making a gesture--and you will hear the Question louder and clearer than another shouting at the top of their lungs.

Zenmaster is probably quite familiar with the Zen Koans, which are create to make the rational mind "lock up" to allow the spirit to be heard. And there are precise answers to each question the koan asks... you can buy a book of the answers. But, to speak the answer is not to KNOW the answer. The true answer is the process of figuring it out.

The Question works along the same lines. You could write the question you asked me down, and hand it to a dozen people and have them ask it to me -- yet I would remain silent, because it came from their mouth, not their Spirit.
BlueEagle wrote:Thus, by realizing that our view of others is so limited, we cannot by any ethical, karmic, or giving reasons interfere with those who would not ask of us.
Do not let karma prevent you from acting or making choices. You are more than you are now... view the system from a higher level, seeing dozens of incarnations working together towards a common goal. Mistakes made in one are corrected in another. True, the one that gets stuck with the correcting may not be a life of ease and luxury, but it does get the job done.

That you can consider the reprocussions of karma and ethics within this life is very good... most people never consider the results of their actions. Take the next step. See how the system interacts over multiple incarnations of yourself. Then realize the system is the same for others. Then you can see the reason for "ethics".
BlueEagle wrote:While walking down an alley, you hear a scream. Do you investigate, knowing you most likely have the skills to deal with the situation? (The question I believe here is why would the universe have you at this spot at this time? The Karmic results of any action could be grave.)
You are right on the mark with your analysis. But, like all things, it is an opportunity to learn. The situation, itself, may be a result of your own karma where you made what you considered to be the wrong choice in the past, and are now being presented with a similar opportunity to see if you have learned anything.

For me, the situation does not pose any problem. I would act, immediately, investigate and take what actions I deemed were necessary, because I trust in my own decision-making process which is a direct consequence of my code of ethics. Sure, I may do the wrong thing -- but isn't it better to do the "wrong thing for the wrong reason", rather than to do the "right thing for the wrong reason"?
BlueEagle wrote:A trustworthy person comes to you asking for information that might save a life. Do you give the information? Even if you know some of the circumstances, you cannot know all of them including the karmic situation. Again, why did this person come to you?
To see if you can pass the Quiz, handed out by your higher self. If not, back to the books and a similar situation will present itself in the future.

I have found that you can usually tell when you are learning and growing, because situations do not repeat. When they do, it is a problem area that one needs to work on some more. (And I have spent YEARS repeating situations! The answer is not always easily forthcoming, and requires patience.)
BlueEagle wrote:We can show compassion not by tearing down walls, or by taking out the local rough guys, but by kindness, by a smile, by living and teaching love. The Universe was born out of true wisdom and love. We must always think before we act, and question in silence before we think. But I believe that there is a higher standard of love and ethics and wisdom, by which the Rangers may make our mark in silence.
Very nice summary of 4th density ethics.

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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:45 pm

LoneBear wrote:Your ethics, and service path, are determined by what it IS that you "want."

Ever wonder why the Shadows ask the question, "what do you want?" You can see the answer in this simple definition of good and bad.
This is a question that partly defines how we see the world and what is meaningful about it. I think that in order for a group to work effectively together, they need to be able to manifest this question in a more objective manner. By this I mean that there is not simply a set of laws, but a thought structure that constantly refreshes the structure of the organization - much in the same way that the flow of water in a fountain refreshes the structure of the fountain. This is possible from the principle of clear intent whereby the universe naturally cooperates by answering all questions. This principle mostly continues operating, as it has always done, outside of conscious awareness. When there is a small understanding of one's intent, the cooperation is perceived as synchronicity. However, when consciousness is available, the two-way communication is more evident. What I am saying is that the clear intent, the well-formed question, forms the "living" thought structure from which to learn/teach in a new kind of ontology.

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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:24 pm

LoneBear wrote:The Code of Chilvary is based on the 5th density concepts of duty and honor, and probably a leftover from the teachings of the Law of One. Since we are just touching upon 4th density, I would not consider 5th density concepts to have "run their course." Ignored, maybe, misunderstood, good possibility, but still very applicable.
Yes, based on, but not grounded within. I didn't say or imply that 5th density concepts have run their course. The mythology that comes from the intuitive apprehension of the 5th density values has run its course because that apprehension was strongly filtered through the historical reality of a socioeconomic class structure that is no longer in operation.
LoneBear wrote:The advantage of the metaphor is that we are still 3rd density beings; the archetypes represented within the Code of Chilvary represent some of the highest ideals mankind has reached within its recorded history, and are still very active upon mankind today. Do not so easily discount motifs that are only a couple of centuries old, within the 75 millennia of 3rd density existance. They don't disappear that quickly!
Yes, the archetypes represented by the code do represent some of the highest ideals mankind has reached within it's recorded history and are still very active today. However, the code and those archetypes which it was pointing at, are not, and of course, were never the same thing. For example, a turquoise meme expression of those archetypes would reflect more unified and balanced principles, while blue meme worldviews reflected the common understandings of the mediaeval day. For example, that was a time of pre-exploration, pre-enlightenment, and pre-equal rights. Since that time, as man's problems have evolved, subsequent wordview development has provided opportunity for a greater field of consciousness that has subsumed the catalysts that were important and necessary in the past. In my opinion, at best we can learn from what the code was trying to express, but to actually adopt and follow the old code as some kind of lost institution or road map to a greater glory would be a somewhat perverted practice in the context of this reality.

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Thie Anla'shok within the Alliance

Post by BlueEagle » Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:08 am

What are some more specific ideas on what the Anla'shok could do for the Alliance, as part of the Alliance?

I have said before that there are possibly two main possibilities: (with in the Alliance)

1. To find, and possibly educate, those that are looking for the Law of One.

2. To gather intellegence.

What will be the Alliance's specific needs, and how can the Anla'shok meet those needs?

Other possibilites: (much bigger views and ideas)

1. To help make the transition from 3rd to 4th desity as "smooth" as possible.

2. To attempt to stop us (the 3rd density beings on this planet) from destroying our selves
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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:34 am

BlueEagle wrote:1. To find, and possibly educate, those that are looking for the Law of One.
AFAIK, all are looking for the Law of One. If you desire to serve, the Law of One will provide the opportunity. If you intend to educate then you must have the equal intention to be educated. If you intend to find, then you must be available to be found.
BlueEagle wrote:2. To gather intellegence.
Why to gather intelligence? What is the purpose of gathering intellegence?
BlueEagle wrote:1. To help make the transition from 3rd to 4th desity as "smooth" as possible.
If you were to make it as smooth a transition as possible then wouldn't you be denying potential catalyst? If it was a "rough" transition, rather than a smooth transition, how would this be less desirable?
BlueEagle wrote:2. To attempt to stop us (the 3rd density beings on this planet) from destroying our selves
It would seem that you not only know what is conducive to destruction of the self, but you think this destruction is something worth stopping. I sincerely would like to know more of your thoughts on this.

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Nuclear Wessels

Post by LoneBear » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:35 pm

zenmaster wrote:
BlueEagle wrote:2. To attempt to stop us (the 3rd density beings on this planet) from destroying our selves
It would seem that you not only know what is conducive to destruction of the self, but you think this destruction is something worth stopping. I sincerely would like to know more of your thoughts on this.
I also think it is something worth stopping. Recall what happened to Mars and Maldek, when they went and destroyed themselves?

BlueEagle is quite correct when he states "destroying our selves" (versus "ourselves") -- for nuclear weapons do destroy or damage the self.

You may recall Larson's "speed ranges"... 1-x (sublight), 2-x (intermediate) and 3-x (ultra-high)?

Conventional explosives operate only in the 1-x speed range, and thus can only effect the space/time of the body, so reincarnation takes care of that easily.

Atomic weapons move into the intermediate speed range, which means the effects also cause an explosion in time/space (mind, cosmic), which damages the incarnative process and can cause ELEs (Extinction Level Events).

Nuclear weapons, particularly the "dirty" ones, actually touch into the ultra-high speed range, which means they can cause explosive effects outside of the physical universe of space/time (material) and time/space (cosmic) -- directly effecting the spirit complex -- which so damages/destroyes the complex, that it requires the Guardians to intervene to attempt to preserve the complexes of those effected.

It was the use of these devices that destroyed the civilizations on Mars and Maldek that stuck them in the Web of Fear for 500 millenia. And if the Guardians hadn't stepped in... they would no longer exist.

I think it is wise to learn from our mistakes and from the mistakes of others.

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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:42 pm

LoneBear wrote:Atomic weapons move into the intermediate speed range, which means the effects also cause an explosion in time/space (mind, cosmic), which damages the incarnative process and can cause ELEs (Extinction Level Events).
So we would be sharing the same time/space of the blast with our minds? I thought that a blast that was fast enough to get into the intermediate speed range was widely dispersed in time (like imcoming cosmic background radiation to the material sector)? How could our "mind complexes", which are supposedly randomly dispersed in time, even acknowledge non-local effects of a local > c blast?

Or are you saying that somehow there is a time-local explosion? If there is a time-local explosion, how could the temporal components of the blast interact with the temporal components of our minds? Is the mind complex not equivalent to a widely, temorally dispersed body complex?

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Post by LoneBear » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:23 pm

zenmaster wrote:So we would be sharing the same time/space of the blast with our minds? I thought that a blast that was fast enough to get into the intermediate speed range was widely dispersed in time (like incoming cosmic background radiation to the material sector)?
Think 2nd density... the LIFE UNIT, which is both local and non-local in both sectors. The effect, however, would be limited to the Earth logos, and will therefore effect all life on Earth.

A intermediate-speed blast way out in space, outside of any planetary (prana-based) logos would do what you describe and have no effects upon the planetary systems. It would not be strong enough to effect a solar logos to any degree.
zenmaster wrote:How could our "mind complexes", which are supposedly randomly dispersed in time, even acknowledge non-local effects of a local > c blast?
Our mind complex is localized in time/space in the 2nd density. That is how the life unit differs from the material unit (inanimate matter).
zenmaster wrote:Or are you saying that somehow there is a time-local explosion? If there is a time-local explosion, how could the temporal components of the blast interact with the temporal components of our minds? Is the mind complex not equivalent to a widely, temorally dispersed body complex?
Explosion in space, implosion in time (from spatial perspective) = explosion in time (from temporal perspective). The mind is the latter, and an explosion moves things apart, so therefore mental structures are disrupted perhaps to the point of no return.

As an analogy, consider the effect of heat -- an outward motion -- on any spatial body -- expansion. If it expands too much, the body is destroyed. Same basic thing, except it happens in time/space, rather than space/time.

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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:28 pm

I now understand what you are saying about the mind being localized in time due to its 2nd-density properties. And I understand that the temporal Earth is also at the same temporal position as our minds just as the spatial Earth is at the same position of our bodies.

However, I do not see how an explosion on the surface of the spatial Earth would be a 2d-temporal phenomenon and therefore it couldn't be localized in time as the blast goes > c and into time, because according to Larson, the particles would be scattered across the cosmic half of the universe.

Please explain how a spatial >c explosion could also be a temporally localized explosion.

Also, the 2nd-density-thought-form-bigfoot creatures that are supposedly capable of surviving a nuclear blast presumably have a temporally localized mind component. How would they avoid obliteration of their mind complexes?

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Post by BlueEagle » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:39 pm

Sorry to take it off track...I thought this would be the best place to put this question.

Zenmaster, what do you think is/are the purpose(s) of the Anla'shok?
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Re: The Purpose of the Anla'shok

Post by zenmaster » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:00 pm

BlueEagle wrote:Zenmaster, what do you think is/are the purpose(s) of the Anla'shok?
Basically the experiencing of and the promotion of consciousness with respect to the free will of all, with the addition of the coloration from those archetypal influences that symbolize knighthood and chivalry. It seems that the grail, having been found, would be shared.

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Post by LoneBear » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:26 pm

zenmaster wrote:It seems that the grail, having been found, would be shared.
Good, Tier 2 thinking Zen! I think that is right on the mark for the Anla'shok -- Grail Quest completed, healing done, wholeness in place. Time to share what has been learned and experienced.

Now I'm going to have to check out the Grail mythos with a different perspective ... that of movement thru the memes and tiers. I do think that is why the Anla'shok of Babylon 5 were so "cool" -- they acknowledge and have dealt with their internal problems, and are working towards a more universal goal. That is probably what the Minbari training as about.

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