Elder Race perhaps?

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
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Alluvion
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Elder Race perhaps?

Post by Alluvion » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:04 pm

lone bear - I am curious as to your experiences in realizing your connections and background and such.

_Adam

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LoneBear
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Not a simple request

Post by LoneBear » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:05 pm

Not a simple request to fulfill... like most people, I felt I never "fit in" with those around me. My paradigm was never the paradigm of my friends or teachers, so I was never satisfied with the explanations I received. This forced me to find my own answers to my own questions, and the first result of that is getting kicked out of the Borg collective -- the group mindset -- at an early age.

I found my only real satisfaction with life was when I was in the wilderness. During times of stress and trouble, the animals and trees always helped me thru. I looked into the New Age movement at an early age (my Mom subscribed to "Fate" magazine, so I had a lot of exposure), and the "Star Child" stuff never really fit. Sure, they were advertising it as "cool" to be an off-worlder (just as Wanderers are the "in thing" now), but I never had any desire to "go home"... I "was home." The challenge was trying to figure out why I felt so alien in what was billed as an "Earthly" environment.

That is where the Elder Race material came into play. At last, it made sense... I wasn't "alien", but a Native to Earth, surrounded by aliens trying to convert my world into theirs. It was a real shocker to see Ra say that 75% of the Earth's population was from another planet!

I am not sure of the specifics of what you are asking. Are you one of the Elder Race? You have to decide, and that decision is based on how you feel about the Earth. So that would be my question to you: do you feel at home here? If there are feelings of alienation, are they more like someone visiting a foreign country, or getting stuck in the middle of a visiting tour group from another country?

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Re: Elder Race perhaps?

Post by Alluvion » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:54 am

>>>I am not sure of the specifics of what you are asking. Are you one of the Elder Race? You have to decide, and that decision is based on how you feel about the Earth. So that would be my question to you: do you feel at home here? If there are feelings of alienation, are they more like someone visiting a foreign country, or getting stuck in the middle of a visiting tour group from another country?


I've never felt alien to this planet. At times however, I have felt alien to these people. I've often felt, most purely and clearly in dreams, that I am not home among most people and that could just be feelings of growing up and individuating. In my dreams, and only with one other person so far, have I ever felt overwhelming, viscous sensations of acceptance and clarity and recognition between myself and other entities, like a homecoming that borders on the ecstastic and the incredibly sad (i don't know why). So I am not really sure of my situation as of yet. Most of the time I remain relatively unconcerned with that label or role and just working on getting myself in gear : )

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Today I is one

Post by LoneBear » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:14 pm

polakie11 wrote:I've never felt alien to this planet. At times however, I have felt alien to these people. I've often felt, most purely and clearly in dreams, that I am not home among most people and that could just be feelings of growing up and individuating.
Sounds like you have many of the characteristics of the Elders. Individuation can be distinguished from alienation by looking at the concepts of duty, honor and responsibility. If you accept responsibility early on, then odds are you have already individuated and feeling alienated because of those around you.
polakie11 wrote:In my dreams, and only with one other person so far, have I ever felt overwhelming, viscous sensations of acceptance and clarity and recognition between myself and other entities, like a homecoming that borders on the ecstastic and the incredibly sad (i don't know why).
Well that's one more than most people get. From the other Elders I interact with, I don't get any overwhelming sense of acceptance... just a satisfaction of mutual respect.
polakie11 wrote:So I am not really sure of my situation as of yet. Most of the time I remain relatively unconcerned with that label or role and just working on getting myself in gear : )
Something I was discussing with GhostCat a while back was that it was important to identify the source of your spirit for two reasons: first, to be able to generate a stream of consciousness outside of your present incarnation, and second, to identify the archetypes that influence your unconscious side. There can be a lot of understanding in the bottle that holds that label, if you find the correct one that represents your origins.

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Re: Elder Race perhaps?

Post by Alluvion » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:43 am

>>>Sounds like you have many of the characteristics of the Elders. Individuation can be distinguished from alienation by looking at the concepts of duty, honor and responsibility. If you accept responsibility early on, then odds are you have already individuated and feeling alienated because of those around you.

you've definately hit the mark. I have had a very loud inner dialogue and sense of integrity since very young. Of course that has stayed with me and become, in some ways, extreme guilt, regret, self hate, etc etc and all the dark stuff inexperience and fear bring about. I am dealing with bringing light into that now.

>>>
Well that's one more than most people get. From the other Elders I interact with, I don't get any overwhelming sense of acceptance... just a satisfaction of mutual respect.

it almost boarders on the romantic. I know that I do not understand it fully but its...an incredible combination of heart-break and deep satiety, that feeling I mean. In my dreams I am embraced by other beings and the "family" is found and in our being together we are home and such. I think that elder may apply to me, but I can't discern if earth symbols or "alien civ" imagery applies more than one or the other to my past dreams. But in any case, the sensation is at one physical, emotional and spiritual.

>>>
Something I was discussing with GhostCat a while back was that it was important to identify the source of your spirit for two reasons: first, to be able to generate a stream of consciousness outside of your present incarnation, and second, to identify the archetypes that influence your unconscious side. There can be a lot of understanding in the bottle that holds that label, if you find the correct one that represents your origins.

as far as opening streams up I do identify with 'angelic conscioussness and presence', elemental conscioussness, and sexual exchange. I am not sure if there is 'categorical evidence' that would decide, for me, that I am off-world or elder, and as you said the decision is mine. If I decide to choose, Elder seems most appropriate - however, I am not clear yet on my archetypal library.

any thoughts/suggestions/advice?

_Adam

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Re: Elder Race perhaps?

Post by Alluvion » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:10 am

to clarify:

I am asking, to whomever reads this post:

what are your archetypes, how did you uncover this, how do you "know" these archetypes, how are they applied...etc etc.
I guess a primer, I want to be educated about this.

_Adam

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The PITS

Post by LoneBear » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:19 am

polakie11 wrote:it almost boarders on the romantic. I know that I do not understand it fully but its...an incredible combination of heart-break and deep satiety, that feeling I mean. In my dreams I am embraced by other beings and the "family" is found and in our being together we are home and such.
That sounds more like the PITS (Post Individuation Trauma Syndrome). When the warm, fuzzy security blanket that collective consciousness provides is finally removed, the ego finds itself bare-assed and alone in the middle of a universe full of things with teeth and claws, and immediately tries to find that level of comfort again within a group mind or pseudo-family structure (tribal family in the purple vMeme, religious sanctuary in the blue vMeme, or corporate substitute family in the orange vMeme). It uses the emotional system (part of the "mind" complex) to try to pull the developing consciousness back into one of those systems that it understands and is comfortable with.

Notice that it uses desire rather than fear, because the curiousity of the spirit caused the original dissatisfaction and fear can no longer be used as a re-centering principle. The ego complex (in its psychological sense) always strives to return to a Tier 1 vMeme because that is where it is the top dog. Once you get into Tier 2, then the Self takes the reigns and Ego becomes the janitor.
polakie11 wrote:I think that elder may apply to me, but I can't discern if earth symbols or "alien civ" imagery applies more than one or the other to my past dreams. But in any case, the sensation is at one physical, emotional and spiritual.
Symbolism occurs on multiple levels. In the earlier vMemes, the only conscious symbols are collective ones (god and Goa'uld). As one starts to individuate from the collectives, symbols become more personal and a specific set becomes the "internal" language of communication based on the valuing principles of your current incarnation.

For example, mine are all based in Science Fiction, which is decidedly Atlantean, not Elder. But I found early on that Sci-Fi was what piqued my curiousity, and I unconsciously used that to keep the spirit growing until I could actually see what I was doing, consciously.

What I did to discover my internal language was to draw out each symbol that had some importance to me on an index card, one symbol per card. Then I could lay them out on the table and actually "see" my language. Then I would research them to find out what they meant, and took notes on the back of the card.

As an example, since I was raised during the years of classic Star Trek, the USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 (no bloody "A", "B", "C", "D" or "E", as Scotty would say) is the symbol for my ego complex. Kirk was the point of consciousness for the ego, giving the orders. The mind complex was represented by Spock and McCoy, being thinking and feeling, respectively, and always arguing with each other. Scotty was the body complex, keeping things running and in good repair. As the process of individuation occured, Kirk stopped giving orders, and started following the orders of Starfleet Command -- the Self -- appearing distant and only heard directly over subspace communication. As things continued to develop, Starfleet started taking its orders from the Federation Council, and in the final stages of individuation, I became "President" of the Federation, with all of its duties and responsibilities to work for the benefit of all the member worlds. (This was the point of the yellow, "systemic" vMeme -- seeing the system, rather than just the components).

It's all allegory, but I'm sure you can see why Star Trek affected so many people. Its symbols and characters represented the process of successful individuation from the collective (even well before the Borg came in, which is the PITS again -- the collective trying to re-assimilate those who departed it).
polakie11 wrote:If I decide to choose, Elder seems most appropriate - however, I am not clear yet on my archetypal library.

any thoughts/suggestions/advice?
Quick note on "choosing"... 3rd density is the "density of choice". The whole reason you are experiencing it is to make choices. If you don't, you might as well just hop on the bus back to the 2nd density, where the group mind can decide for you. (Hint Hint ZM).

There is nothing wrong with being wrong. Just have the duty, honor and responsibility to clean up the mess you left from making a wrong choice, then choose again. Correct choices will lead to curiousity, wonder and the growth of spirit.

Regarding archetypes, there are 12 major ones, which have their collective symbols in the astrological signs (or Apostles, if you are Christian). Traversing the archetypes has its collective symbolism in the trials of Hercules.

The archetypes aren't really associated with the stars, but with the neutral magnetic sheet of the sun and the position of the Earth in it. When the system was created, the stars provided a pictoral background for where we were located in the magnetic sheet, and hence astrology developed. So the astrological signs weigh very heavily on the Elder Race, since we are native to the Earth and were built within the sun's magnetic ambit since we were specks of dust.

You will find that you have personal symbols for the major archetypes, and probably hundreds of smaller ones based on archetypal relationships and the inferred archetypes of other civilizations.

The Elder Race responds strongest to the archetypes of Earth. The other 15 races, having a body/mind of the Earth and spirit from elsewhere, are only partially responsive which causes internal conflicts between natural pulls and desires and those of the spirit. Wanderers, however, only have a body complex of Earth and have a great deal of difficulty with mental, emotional and spiritual conflicts with the body (hence then tend to be very weak, physically, whereas Elder Race are built sturdy).

Hope this helps.

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books/films/songs/poems/art/etc + archetpyal library

Post by Alluvion » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:05 pm

1.so to those following this post, we've really delved into exploring what archetpyes are, a little on how they function in concordance with how we function with them, what they might be, how they might be found, etc - so I am interested to gather a list of media that has, for each of us in some way, lead to a real awakening about what we consider as our "identity" - zenmaster contributed the two books by jung, "archetypes and the collective unconscious" and "personality types" already, so lonebear, blue eagle and ghost cat, if you have any you wish to share please do - anything that gave you a clue as to being of the elders or wanderer or what not.

2. scales of archetypal libraries:

so there is the personl archetypal set, that might be distilled towards the primary functinons of - higher self, self, ego, thinking, feeling, sensation, intuiting.

I assume this travels scale towards the partnership, the small group, the large group, the SMC, the cultural archetypes and the collective etc etc.
If this is so then aren't archetypal IMAGES constantly changing and finding a new more appropriate garmet as dictated by the knowledge and spiritual skill level of a culture? Last night I began listing archetpyal sets that arise from images/memories/sensations/feelingss that appeal to me - and I realize I am in the process of refinement so all these lists will begin to bring light to the dusty corridors of my subconscious. In that process I came to make a set of cards based on principle: wisdom, power, love, balance, and discipline - many images arose within and across the categories (such as the Orchard, the Athelete, the Prince, the Orator, etc).

As I explore and clarify, as I understand this, the formless principles begin to communicate with me using these images. But at the personal scale only? What about the cultural or collective scales? TO get specific:

what kinds of experiences have you had with archetypal communication? in dreams only? how did these operate to communicate information about yourself, other selves, the world, etc ? has this happened? does anyone know if there are any archetypal catalogues at both the individual and mass scale?

thanks!
_Adam

ps - i feel like I am stringing this topic out, and the last thing I am ok with is contrivance : ) part of this is learning to be patient I think because really what I am interested in is just the complete sharing of all information anyone has about their archetypal knowledge. No pressure of course! and I am adding my AIM screen name in, if anyone wants a chat:

polakie

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