A Ranger Quiz

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BlueEagle
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A Ranger Quiz

Post by BlueEagle » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:06 pm

Lately on Bring4th.org, a certain circumstance has caught my attention.

Quiz Forum

If the link does not work, go to Bring4th.org (you don't have to log in), then on the top menu bar go "Discussion Center", "Forums", "Public Forums", then in the new page "General Conversation", then the "Quiz" forum.

As "outsiders" we will be faced with people that try to tear down the group. Any group of people, even Christians (though not to the extent), face people like this. I have a few questions for the Rangers on how this situation is developing, and what as Rangers could we do, or would we do if this was us.

First some guide lines:

The purpose of this is not to tear down either group, nor is it to get involved. The purpose is to learn from what is happening, and how a Ranger (ideally) might deal with it.
Please try and keep and unbias mind. Look at the points each person is making, no matter what context they come in. Add in context later if need be.

1. What roll does free will play in what they are writting to each other, and the ideas they are writting about
2. What roll does privacy play in this (either Ranger or on Bring4th)
3. Does a Ranger have the right to try and help? Is he asking for help?

One serious point which is brought up is the idea of a cult. If you know the people in this group as I believe I do, you know that this is not a cult. I have no fear and no angst about who they are. They are good people. But how do we keep any group that we create from becomming a cult. I believe that the Ranger Code of Ethics helps solve this by giving free-will paramount importance. If you don't like it, leave. No one has power over you unless you give it. (This may need to be separated.)

WS:
I think that an interaction like this could only be subversive if we as rangers forget to be humble and forget to be honest - not that we should be doormats or apathetic, but that we should always check ourselves and our motivations and watch for those situations where cleverness and psychological gameplaying is at work - and once we know this, choose to accept it and so setp outside it.
We are all reflections of each other, WS knows this. Look at this as a learning experience, not a session to find out who is right and who is wrong.

Thank you
Believing in Faith

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dbeaman1
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re. chat or whatever

Post by dbeaman1 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:43 pm

Blue, this person is hurting, and lashing out. The question is, do you want to spend your energy on this? Is it important to YOU to expend your energy on him, and will that make a positive difference in this person's life?
If the answer is yes, then one should deal with the person. If the answer is no, there should be no reply whatsoever, for one cannot argue alone.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth :)
oma

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BlueEagle
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Re:

Post by BlueEagle » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:09 pm

You are right. I don't want to spend any more time on it or energy. Thanks. I don't think I could relate to him enough to try and help, nor would he want it.

He wants revenge, not hope. He wants a fight, not discussion.

Thank you.
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LoneBear
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Kobayashi Maru

Post by LoneBear » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:37 am

Remember the Kobayashi Maru test in The Wrath of Kahn? There will be times you are faced with a "no-win" situation--as in the situation on Bring4th--and you can just walk away from them when recognized for what they are. But there are times when they cannot be ignored, and ignoring them just aggravates the situation to dangerous levels.

I think the value here is learning how one does react to a no-win situation, and how it affects them emotionally. Doing it consciously thru a chosen interaction is probably a much better learn/teach experience than getting thrown into a pit with a rabid wolf.

I've learned in the course of my life that things do not happen by accident. There is meaning to everything. The mere fact that BlueEagle makes this suggestion indicates that some interaction IS called for -- but at a higher level of learning, versus the flame wars now going on.

But... stick to the Ranger principles. You must be "invited in". Understand that doesn't mean you have to sit at home until someone knocks at your door and says, "come here." You can hang out on the forums on Bring4th, and talk about things that are important to you... for example, getting response from the pluther of Wanderers there on the Ranger Code of Ethics. When Honto attacks, then you are "invited", and can start learning from the interaction. If he ignores you, at least you get some feedback on the Code of Ethics from the Wanderer point of view.

Personally, I think it is a good real-world test of Ranger principles. I don't think the Universe would have made you aware of the situation, and prodded you into wanting to interact, if it didn't serve as a growth and learning function. I'd suggest you give it a shot. But remember:

1) Duty, honor, responsibility, peace. The core of the Rangers.

2) Respect the privacy of others. Do not refer to a person by any name other than what they have publically posted, even if you know who it is.

3) Speak honestly and from your heart, tempered by the mind.

4) Do not hide behind the words of others. Reference is fine, but always speak from your own understanding. Never say, "he/she said this", or constantly use quotes from other works to give you "plausible deniability" if attacked. Should you be attacked, you should be attacked for what YOU believe in, not the words of others.

5) Be conscious of your interaction at all times. Consider your replies and their response to what you post ahead of time. Then post, and see if you are right. This has a double-benefit of spiritual growth thru multiple point-of-view perspective, and doubly psychic training--picking up the non-physical cues (works particularly well on the Internet, because there is no physical presence for body language). In order to interact successfully, you need to be able to see the opportunities and warning signs of those you interact with.

6) Work together as Rangers... diversity and unity. Demonstrate to those on Bring4th what Q'uo and the others in the System find so interesting about the Ranger idea -- the common thread of the Law of One that ties everyone together.

7) And remember that Kirk was the only one to ever win the no-win scenario, which tells you that there is actually no such thing as a "no-win" scenario -- just bad assumptions.

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Re: A Ranger Quiz

Post by Alluvion » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:44 pm

I think you make some valid points about handeling such situations. However, to view them as 'win/lose' situations is to be in that game already, and not beside it. I mean to say that if you beleive there is no 'losing' then there is only 'winning' then it becomes a matter of how maneuver in the situation in the most ethical and ideal manner and worry not about verbal assaults and egotistical wounds since those are not problems for survival. Its definately easy to get pulled into that game, as I was, and so stepping out of it but not away from it becomes essential. I had to continue reminding myself not to post with sayings like "we can't tell you.." or "those of us at the forum.." because I can't speak for everyone and can only adress the issues I am dealing with and the things I think. Thats just one way - and when the anger subsides and the passion remains the honesty can again be paramount, and sitting with honesty is sitting with every situation as a chance to learn and grow, without failure or negative karma.

_Adam

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LoneBear
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Games

Post by LoneBear » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:20 pm

WarmSylph wrote:However, to view them as 'win/lose' situations is to be in that game already, and not beside it.
Or, consider "win/lose" as just perspectives of an interaction, just like space and time are aspects of motion. Any time you have a dichotomy, like win/lose, you will always have the inverse, lose/win. Our existence is built on this polarity -- it's a game you signed up for millions of years ago.

And as a long-time D&D and Runequest player and gamemaster, I know the advantage of "games". Games are simulations of reality, so that we can explore possibilities, learn how the universe works, and how we fit into it.

These forums are nothing but "board games", if you'll excuse the pun. As are email lists and web sites. The entire Internet is one giant game, because the characters you meet online are seldom who they actually are -- they are the "character" they have created to play the game.

So play the games, and learn what they are there to teach. Unlike the Matrix, you'll never be flushed out of this game -- but you can recognize that it IS a game, and figure out the rules by which it is played, whether that be science, religion, philosophy, sociology or any discipline.
WarmSylph wrote:I mean to say that if you beleive there is no 'losing' then there is only 'winning'
Conclusion does not follow premise. If I believe there is no "time", then there is only "space"?
WarmSylph wrote:then it becomes a matter of how maneuver in the situation in the most ethical and ideal manner and worry not about verbal assaults and egotistical wounds since those are not problems for survival. Its definately easy to get pulled into that game, as I was, and so stepping out of it but not away from it becomes essential.
And what is your analysis of the situation? Did you learn anything from your interaction?
WarmSylph wrote:I had to continue reminding myself not to post with sayings like "we can't tell you.." or "those of us at the forum.." because I can't speak for everyone and can only adress the issues I am dealing with and the things I think.
Now that looks like a very valuable lesson that few people learn!
WarmSylph wrote:Thats just one way - and when the anger subsides and the passion remains the honesty can again be paramount, and sitting with honesty is sitting with every situation as a chance to learn and grow, without failure or negative karma.
So there is more to learn here... go for it.

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Re: A Ranger Quiz

Post by Alluvion » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:48 pm

yes. I agree with you. But it is still quite a step for most to realize they are games and once realizing that, choosing still to play.
As for the second statement it really is an overcomplicated way of saying the above - when you recognize its just the illusion of a game then win/lose and lose/win dissolve. Choosing to play the game means acknowledging its polarities and illusory qualities but without worry - because the spiritual game is already 'won', in a larger sense.

_Adam

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LoneBear
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Re: A Ranger Quiz

Post by LoneBear » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:18 pm

Well, looks like it might be a moot point now. I just saw a post from Honto which only said, "Good Bye".

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Re: A Ranger Quiz

Post by Alluvion » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:36 pm

si. not moot though, I learned. but closed for sure.

until he pops in again.

_Adam

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Re: A Ranger Quiz

Post by LoneBear » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:20 am

Honto popped up one last time, see Honto's Swan Song.

Just remember that the psychological transference is in strong play here -- Hotaru is Honto's anima (soul). When she left, his soul left as well. When he speaks of cults and the like, he is actually talking about those parts of himself that he cast out. It is no wonder he uses the demon symbol to represent himself in each message, for he, too, "was cast out of heaven."

C.G. Jung did an excellent book on it called, "The Psychology of the Transference" (Collected Works, volume 16).

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