Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

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Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Yes, everyone is
2
14%
Yes, but only a small percentage of people
9
64%
Yes, but they choose ignorance
3
21%
No, I can't think about this question
0
No votes
I choose not to answer on the grounds that it would incriminate me
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14

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LoneBear
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Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by LoneBear » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:59 pm

I have noticed that there are very few people that seem to be able to "put 1 and 1 together" these days, particularly in the younger generation. It seems the bulk of the population rely on others to do their thinking for them--and these days, it's the lecturers and popular YouTube posters, particularly in the New Age and Conspiracy markets. Most other people seem to just rely on marketing, advertising and managers to tell them what to think, buy and do.

Am I correct in this supposition? Got any thoughts on it? :D
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by Ilkka » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:32 am

LoneBear wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:59 pm
Am I correct in this supposition? Got any thoughts on it? :D
I really haven't gone out that much but I do watch alot of Youtube videos, some are informative and others just silly entertainment ones. And when I think that what and how people act in various situations, there is a certainity in this supposition to be quite true. Many people are apparently doing as their "superiors" tell them how to do things and act, there are those youtubers that act as "role models" to young teens and are like the authority they advertise their products a book or some shirts which has their brand in them etc. and of course some people buy them to be/belong in "the gang of (enter name here)". Perhaps it is just that simple, people want/need to feel that they belong in somewhere, or be accepted to some place. Maybe that is the "drive" that has been prominent for this kind of behaviour, but how to manipulate such a drive is still in question, maybe with countless of choices to choose from.

There is also religious factor to be accounted for some groups, they are doing what their belief teaches them to do and how to act. Bunch of guns found in mosque in Germany is a dead give away of those certain groups for preparing for something that their "superiors" tell them to do. In certain countries there has been no independent thought at all because of other options are deliberately being cast aside, you either are functioning slave or a dead one.

My answer was the second one, but also there are/must be those that choose to do it knowingly, because it makes them feel comfort perhaps it is kind of natural drug for people to rely on authorities to make their decisions for them. My little brother seems to be no different since he says that only authority over his is some pretty girl that he would like, that would make him to clean his apartment etc. He does not listen to his family members at all, still he believes in modern science and sometimes asks me about some stuff I learned from the Daniel papers, this and CH forums etc. But he doesn't believe me and I am quite tired of answering him anything since I got nothing that he is willing to hear, not even the basic chemistry stuff. He thinks it is better to make his own assumptions, which is good but not when he relies on modern scince too much. He says that there are NO better alternatives and doesn't want to read stuff from you guys, but listens to me trying to tell him something that I am incabable of doing since I cant really teach him anything my way. I dont know a way to teach him anything, so I gave up.

Got out of hand that one.
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by DSKlausler » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:44 am

Witnessed the interaction of my wife and her [PhD candidate] friend recently... holy hell, both so obviously controlled by the [mainstream] media. Fear, fear, and more fear... the firearms bullshit dramas and the brown-skinned horseshit stories appear to be working.
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by animus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:00 pm

LoneBear wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:59 pm
I have noticed that there are very few people that seem to be able to "put 1 and 1 together" these days, particularly in the younger generation.
Well, from a spectrum of possible answers that goes from 2 all the way to yellow, finding the correct one is not always that easy. Gotta cut them some slack. Now with magenta in the rainbow and all...
LoneBear wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:59 pm
It seems the bulk of the population rely on others to do their thinking for them--and these days, it's the lecturers and popular YouTube posters, particularly in the New Age and Conspiracy markets. Most other people seem to just rely on marketing, advertising and managers to tell them what to think, buy and do.

Am I correct in this supposition? Got any thoughts on it? :D
A lot of people are getting weary of the lies and many have given up on mainstream media altogether. To compensate they turned to the Internet for alternative news. So naturally the market has become bigger in this area. It is currently being flooded with all kinds of Gurus and based on the quality of the videos the demographic seems to be first and foremost teenagers.
I barely found any student who was interested in these topics five years ago and learned very fast to give up talking about this stuff and therefore just kept it to myself. Probably because I was surrounded with economic students. I bet it is different these days. It would be hard to ignore after even the mainstream has started talking about other media's, i.e. their own, fake news.


Ilkka wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:32 am
There is also religious factor to be accounted for some groups, they are doing what their belief teaches them to do and how to act.
This one is actually funny to observe. Instead of a real religious preacher they go to Youtube and listen to somebody else's religious preaching.
Ilkka wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:32 am
Bunch of guns found in mosque in Germany is a dead give away of those certain groups for preparing for something that their "superiors" tell them to do.
Based on your description alone this reads like a PsyOp. But the ploy you are speaking about may have been true on other occasions. I think NWO people don't want any direct blood on their hands but have no problem in instigating scenarios where people kill one another. Not sure how this works Karma-wise. After all, it is the other one's decision to act and the NWO is only planting the idea in the head.


I voted Yes, but they choose ignorance, as that is what I have experienced so far.
My sister told me a story once when she was in 12th grade. Her teacher gave back the exams and told the class that to her astonishment everybody except one was agreeing with the professor's analysis/opinion, which turned out to be wrong, as she then related. (I don't know what the text was about). My sister was the only one disagreeing. She had remembered our brother once telling her that there is nothing wrong with contradicting the experts, even if they have a Dr. or Prof. title. It seems nobody in the class had the guts to do it as well or maybe they really were all in favor, whatever the matter was.
But there was a second lesson in this story: The teacher gave the class' performance score before handing out the corrected exams. One or two got an A. She was excited to see her A after her teacher saluted her only minutes ago. Then to her disappointment she "only" got a B+ and it sounded she was not happy about the grade. But the thing is: she would have been if her teacher hadn't said anything. Reminds me of the Wikipedia article on apperception I read this morning. There is a quote in there that sums it up perfectly:
A rich child and a poor child walking together come across the same ten dollar bill on the sidewalk. The rich child says it is not very much money and the poor child says it is a lot of money. The difference lies in how they apperceive the same event – the lens of past experience through which they see and value (or devalue) the money. — Christopher Ott

I had a similar experience in one of my English exams when I was in 10th grade. My teacher told me that he usually encourages different thinking. However, having a different opinion on this matter was "just not acceptable". I must have stated something outrageous. :D Don't know what it was, I didn't even know when he handed it over because as I recall I didn't even care to look...

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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by Andrew » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:56 pm

By the end of this post I will have decided what to answer on the poll. I believe free-will is penultimate, but generally people are behind layers of dependent thought. Thought given to them through parents, their upbringing, their religion, whether that is a religion in a God and his commandments or the Governmental "god." Everyone comes from a different stance in a world of authority, but most cling to some sense of authority, and so most are limited in their thinking and responses. I would choose, "yes, but they choose ignorance" but to me that would encapsulate all people. Generally, I think that's true. But objectively, I choose "yes, but only a small population are." On /pol/ for instance, they make threads everyday compiling their research, piecing together bread crumbs, investigating the 800+ sealed indictments in the U.S. that are about to be unsealed, the "draining of the swamp," the pedophilia rings, and so much more in detail just tracing corruption directly, no political correctness, no b.s. It is anarchy manifest, and the information is as good as you'll find on the internet.

You have to be pretty capable of independent thought to be an uncommitted investigator. That website has them in droves, if you can understand their nomenclature and the pressure created by an ever-moving website.
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Ignorance is Bliss

Post by LoneBear » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:52 pm

Andrew wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:56 pm
You have to be pretty capable of independent thought to be an uncommitted investigator. That website has them in droves, if you can understand their nomenclature and the pressure created by an ever-moving website.
I have looked at /pol/ and being familiar with psy-ops, what I see can be classified as "directed response for purposes of distraction." The process is relatively easy to do, you just "leak" information that touches the appropriate emotional and mental triggers to direct a conversation, and the conclusions, to where you want it to go--without having any tangible effect. It appears to those engaged as "independent thought," but is far from it.

I'm just about out of "Beyond Space and Time" and am working on typesetting it for republication, and noticed that "independent thought" is a property of the ethical control unit. And there needs to be a sufficient quantity of control units to engage this behavior (much like a temporal displacement of less than 3 has no effect outside the unit boundary).

I believe that most people now lack sufficient "control units" to initiate independent thought. After all, the "powers that be" don't want people thinking for themselves and have created a commercial environment that does everything it can to suppress such behavior. Without a sufficiency of control units, environmental factors take over and people "dumb down" to the ethical ionization level of society--which is about "zero."

So there may be a physical reason that it is NOT "choosing ignorance," but is just a physical impossibility, given the organizational structure of motion in the psyche.
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Re: Ignorance is Bliss

Post by animus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am

LoneBear wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:52 pm
So there may be a physical reason that it is NOT "choosing ignorance," but is just a physical impossibility, given the organizational structure of motion in the psyche.
It might be a bit of both. Those capable of independent thought can still choose ignorance. And I bet a lot of them do. As for those incapable of it, it is probably only limited to certain fields. They may put 1 and 1 together and come up with stuff on their own in some areas and be completely dependent in other areas.

I am not able to see the organizational structure of motion in the psyche, so I can't comment on that.
But you make it sounds like there is little differentiation between man and automaton. Not sure if an insult to the entire human race can get any bigger than that. :lol: Though I wonder if it even counts as an insult when it is backed up by Science...

What about the "lone wolves" in the animal kingdom. Don't they exhibit independent thought? Do they have more control units than most humans do? I reckon not.


At any rate, those who are entrapped in the dumbed down system and hence are not able to help themselves, much less others, have to rely on those who are. So it would be up to the independent thinkers to bring change to the status quo.

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Re: Ignorance is Bliss

Post by LoneBear » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:20 pm

animus wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am
It might be a bit of both. Those capable of independent thought can still choose ignorance.
That is the essence of the "secret society."
animus wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am
As for those incapable of it, it is probably only limited to certain fields.
Are you suggesting that ethical control units may also have an organ-like structure to them, with a correlation between the ethical organ and some corresponding corpus/anima structure (like phrenology does between mind and body)?

That would give superior ability in specific fields at the onset of ethics, which would then move to encompass the entire experience--becoming the classic "Renaissance Man" (in my days, "a model of versatility," these days, a polymath). Unless something inhibits further development of the ethical body.
animus wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am
But you make it sounds like there is little differentiation between man and automaton. Not sure if an insult to the entire human race can get any bigger than that. :lol: Though I wonder if it even counts as an insult when it is backed up by Science...
Compared to homo ethicus, homo sapiens are just "saps."

Class separation exists in every culture, all throughout history. It is only the New Age that tries to blend that away--a technique common for those at the "bottom of the pile" wanting larger benefits without having to do the actual work. And the time I spent in the New Age certainly proved that to me.

And since the Reciprocal System works in discrete quanta, there would be a hard separation between the muggle and wizard, as so much mythology indicates. Due to the aggregate sizes involved (both in the body and population), there will appear to be a blending between the two, but there will still be that hard line--the point of no return--that separates the sap from the Tomorrow People.
animus wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am
What about the "lone wolves" in the animal kingdom. Don't they exhibit independent thought? Do they have more control units than most humans do? I reckon not.
Any species can achieve ethical control units. I've even seen it in a cow, just once. When that cow looked back at me--somebody was home. And sure enough intellect was at work, because that cow watched how I got over a trench line (blocking off my water supply from them) and applied it to his own form. Hour later, found her on the other side of the trench, drinking away--with a dozen other cows stuck in the trench! Of course in Wyoming, that was 1 in 450,000... but nevertheless, there was ONE.


animus wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am
At any rate, those who are entrapped in the dumbed down system and hence are not able to help themselves, much less others, have to rely on those who are. So it would be up to the independent thinkers to bring change to the status quo.
That is the nature of the evolution of consciousness. And also why dogs, cats and horses like to hang out with humans.
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Re: Ignorance is Bliss

Post by Ilkka » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:32 am

LoneBear wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:20 pm
That is the nature of the evolution of consciousness. And also why dogs, cats and horses like to hang out with humans.
Maybe thats why some of my neighbors are being a-holes towards me and being too noisy especially lately, woken me up at around 4:40 am when walking their dog apparently (it sounds like it).

Perhaps they seek to evolve unconsciously, but still fight against it and me making my life more difficult at the same time. I am very cranky when yanked out of sleep so suddenly and kept that way for several minutes or more, much like anyone would be. Then there are the simulations that play throughout the mind which keeps me awake sometimes 10 minutes or an hour, depending on the mood etc. But I need to tell housing cooperative about them, again to see if it works. I am beyond saying it to their faces because other residents are being quiet enough for me to even not notice them, exept sometimes when the nextdoor dogs are left alone then I can hear their (maybe just the one out of two dogs) "crying", which is quite annoying.

Maybe that is the reason I dont like dogs because of the noise they make, cats are more to my liking. I know they make alot of noise too, when they need to and so on. But the thing that bothers me is that why people who live in flats, apartments etc. need to have a dog as a pet, when they need to go out to do their thing several times a day. Then there are thousands or more of them dogs barking and shitting all over the cities.

The "original job" of dogs has lost its meaning over the "recent" (50 to 60) years. They are being kept out of their "jobs" when being just a pet in some central city. This is the thing I mean, the other dogs that have a job I am no against that at all, I know people still have dogs for hunting, sniffing and guarding. City dogs still guard their surroundings too but there still is something wrong with the picture.

Even got a bit out of topic but still linked into it, as ignorance is bliss. People who have "city dogs" just as a pet are ignorant to the fact that their dog really belongs out of the city, naturally. The certain little dogs like pomeranian or chihuahua what ever "rats" they are, for them I cant think of original job, perhaps they never had any since they are hybridized so much from original canines.

In one episode of "Rick and Morty" there was this thing about dogs and Rick said that to have a dog is to feel superiority over something which would help the person for obvious lack of feeling superior, maybe thats why my little brother (youngest of the family) wanted a dog which he has about 6 years old wiener dog, she is nice always jumping when sees me, still I wouldn't have one of my own dog. I think they belong outside of the house and not inside, because they are "unclean". You wouldn't have a horse inside your house either now would you.
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by Lozion » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:44 pm

The operative word of the question for the poll being « capable », I answered #1. The capability was, is, and will be there. But free will being the Prime rule, one « chooses » to or not to adhere to a particular school of thought. Therein lies a weakness exploited by the « The Powers that be soon no more » to further consensus..
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by Ilkka » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:31 am

Lozion wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:44 pm
The capability was, is, and will be there. But free will being the Prime rule, one « chooses » to or not to adhere to a particular school of thought.
Perhaps not anymore when child grows up they might loose their independent thought. Take into account all the synthetic devices all around, when kids grow up with them devices always relying on them and not themselves as "judge, jury and executioner" but always someone or something else.

Prime rule doesn't apply if people are devolved enough to throw away their freedom of independent thought. Maybe on a subconscious level they might be aware of this, but chooses to be ruled by body only and not mind, nor spirit. Choosing needs to be a conscious choice though, but when you are trained into something you may not have the luxury of getting second thoughts, much like the Jaffa in SG-1 they were created as slaves and incubators for the Goa'uld and doesn't really have much other choices, but if you've seen the whole series you'll know how that turned out. If humans of earth wouldn't interferred then the Jaffa would still be slaves to the Goa'uld.

So there is this outer influence to do the right thing and what originally did the wrong thing too. It goes both ways much like in RS.
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by LoneBear » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:12 pm

Lozion wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:44 pm
The operative word of the question for the poll being « capable »
I've always interpreted "capable" as "having the ability," where it is not just potential.

For example, a turkey is capable of flying because it has wings, but does not.
I am not capable of flight, because no matter how hard I flap my arms, I won't get off the ground.

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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by DSKlausler » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:38 am

LoneBear wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:12 pm
For example, a turkey is capable of flying because it has wings, but does not.
Nitpicking, I know...

Wild turkeys can, and do fly - though a bit ungainly. I believe domesticated (farmed for food) turkeys, although they obviously do have wings, cannot fly.
Anything is possible with the proper training.

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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by LoneBear » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:22 am

DSKlausler wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:38 am
Wild turkeys can, and do fly - though a bit ungainly. I believe domesticated (farmed for food) turkeys, although they obviously do have wings, cannot fly.
I don't think someone would be throwing wild turkeys out of a helicopter. :D
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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by Kent » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:35 pm

I do think people are capable of independent thought, but largely do not go through the trouble to exercise it (from the poll choices I chose 'yes, but they choose ignorance'). Looking at society from a larger perspective things seem set up to ensure that people do not develop independent thought though. The usual culprits of agenda-driven media and conditioning the populace to be unquestioning consumers seem to largely drive this. So, the question becomes are people choosing ignorance or conditioned to be ignorant? The difference may be largely semantic, but I do think there is a difference that is worthy of conversation.

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Re: Are People Still Capable of Independent Thought?

Post by LoneBear » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:35 pm

Kent wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:35 pm
So, the question becomes are people choosing ignorance or conditioned to be ignorant? The difference may be largely semantic, but I do think there is a difference that is worthy of conversation.
There is a difference... it is a matter of conscious knowledge.

Choosing ignorance means you are conscious of the non-ignorant state and, for some overpowering reason, make the choice of "no brain, no pain."

Conditioned ignorance means you are unaware that there is a non-ignorant state, and accept the ignorant condition as the status quo.

If you never question anything, then your are conditioned to be ignorant and know of no other process.

For those that do question, they will eventually stumble upon information that will show their state of ignorance (like finding the --daniel papers). And if they still choose to remain that way, stuck in the Matrix... well, that's a dead end to that evolutionary tree.
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