Education

The Institute is a non-profit, educational institution for the public promotion of the ideas and concepts put forth within the context of the Sanctuary Project. This forum is to discuss the structure of the Institute, requirements and the teach/learn and learn/teach systems.
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Arcelius
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Post by Arcelius » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:32 pm

LoneBear wrote:
aluxon wrote:
LoneBear wrote:So, is the lack of desire for true education something that is programmed out by our current society and educational system?
Interesting question! To a certain extent, the desire for a true education is not something that current society values. Current society (speaking more of western society) values an accumulation of money. Any form of education that supports an unencumbered accumulation of money is therefore desirable. Any form of education that might question whether this accumulation is actually a good thing or maybe question the effects on the environment (in a broad sense) of this accumulation is not desired by society and so society must repress this or suffer its own demise.
So for non-financial education to be successful, it would basically have to work underground in western society, as a type of "forbidden fruit"?
More or less, yes. It would have to work at least enough underground so that it does not become an explicit target. Western society has a fantastic media machine that can easily shape the ideas and biases of most of its members. "Forbidden fruit" is an interesting term. I think at least a few (and maybe more than a few) people only find out about the whole "forbidden fruit" thing after it's too late. At least for me, I found that a bit of a shock to discover that the same people who suggested that I follow certain lines of thought had never actually done so themselves as evidenced by their responses as I try to explain where the lines had taken me.
LoneBear wrote:What are your views on the accessibility of knowledge? I used to believe that knowledge should be free to all. But then, you find that it often moves people faster than they can handle it, and the result is running away rather than moving to higher understandings. Or, it simply makes enemies when someone gets access to truths that they are unable to comprehend, and the fear sets in.
Knowedge should be free in the sense of not costing money to purchase the knowledge itself (people do need to eat though). I think that people should be given knowledge as quickly as it can be assimilated. As you have noted, if this happens too quickly, this knowledge is not assimilated and undesired effects usually happen. If this happens too slowly though, people tend to lose interest in the subject. It has been noted here that the "bright" people in the education system may fall into that category. By assimilated, I mean that the knowledge has gone through the process of being digested and becoming a part of who you are. I don't mean being able to regurgitate an answer on an exam.
LoneBear wrote:
aluxon wrote:As part of the evolutionary process of going from 3D to 4D+, I would expect that at some point the desire to become educated will be present. Whether it is initially acted upon is another question. In the right environment (i.e. 4D+), this should be easy to bring out.
But what if the old philosophers were correct in equating the spirit with the animus, and that the route to harvestability and ascension to 4th density is thru intelligence? You could not get to that situation unless it is addressed now, in 3rd density.

It would make sense if the Ra material is correct, and the Orion group is promoting ignorance to keep this planet from being harvested.
I would note that gaining in intelligence doesn't stop with 4D and that it has been going on since 1D (and possibly before). Back to the question though: unless enough intelligence is acquired, the choice cannot be made. Perhaps the choice could not even be understood. You make a good observation! A true education would be invaluable to gaining the intelligence necessary to become harvestable. It is hard for me to imagine a situation where someone could get to that point without having some attributes of a true education.
LoneBear wrote:
aluxon wrote:For those who may have a natural desire, this can be fairly easily repressed or discouraged. There are many effective psychological methods for behaviour modification which are used throughout society (including Education).
Could you list or give some examples of these techniques?
Here I was thinking of Stanley Milgram's earlier work on obedience. This is the electrical shock learning study where someone wearing a lab coat got 66% of the population (replicated internationally) to complete the experiment. This involved having the subjects thinking that they were giving lethal electrical shocks to another person long after the screams had ended. The other person was really just an actor and no electrical shocks were really administered. A film of this used to be commonly shown as part of a Psych 101 class. The study was showing that people tend to follow someone in authority. That can easily be a school teacher, police officer (or other officer of the court -- there are good reasons why the judge sits above everyone else), military personnel, medical doctor, religious leader, etc. This is the simplest way to get people to do what you want them to. If 2/3s of the population would follow someone in a lab coat (never identified as being a doctor or anything) to kill someone, imagine what people would do if there were actual consequences to saying no. Spending time in jail, low marks (or failure) on tests and exams, or more (imagine Nazi Germany though I hope nothing like that will ever happen again). In the experiment, there were very few people who never started it.

Another example along the same lines comes from another Psych 101 film about an elementary school teacher in Iowa. On Martin Luther King's birthday, she would run a full day experiment in her classroom. After starting the day talking about King and what he had done, she then proceeded to demonstrate what he was fighting against. She split the class up into 2 groups: perhaps the blue-eyed children and the brown-eyed children. She then rearranged the class so that all the blue-eyed children were sitting together and the brown-eyed children were together. She then systematically complimented the blue-eyed children whenever possible and denegrated the brown-eyed ones. "Great answer Johnny! The sort of thing I expect from someone with blue eyes" "I don't know why I bother! Brown-eyed people are so dull." It took less than 1 hour and the blue-eyed children were right in there with the teacher and the brown-eyed children had no defense. After lunch, she switched things around with the brown-eyed children being superior to the blue-eyed children. In took much less time for the switch to take effect. At the end of the day, she wrapped by explaining that no one is superior to another based on physical attributes and everyone returned to their normal seating. A lesson not easily forgotten! The teacher eventually had to stop this due to parental complaints (the ethics of doing something like that to their children).

I have heard a former student of a Catholic school (a large number of years ago) say that if they could get a child from the ages of 3-7, the child would be Catholic for life. It was apparently much easier back then to involve corporal punishment in schools. I've read in Psych testbooks that B.F. Skinner made a similar comment about children and professions. There are also a number of New Religous Movements that employ behaviour modications techniques (love bombing, separation from former life, promotion of an authority figure, etc) to support themselves. Of course, the military does similar things as well (recruitment, boot camp, working for the President, etc).
LoneBear wrote:
aluxon wrote:Ultimately, in order to release the repression on a grand scale, society must change enough to value a true education again. I don't see this happening without a lot of upheaval. Society will protect itself at the expense of itself. It will rather destroy itself (if it can) than change significantly.
So the conclusion I am starting to see here is that Sanctuary, in order to be successful, must be free of the financial encumberences of western society?
Yes. I don't see it being very possible (or desirable) to fully withdraw from society. That may have its own set of potential problems (a la Jim Jones and the People's Temple -- not implying that that is the direction that Sanctuary would take :wink: ). It would be easier in a sense to have a high-level of financial independence.
LoneBear wrote:But what would happen, psychologically, to a person removed from the pressures of modern, commercial society? Can they survive without the latest cell phone?
People have survived for thousands of years without a cell phone. The real question is do they think that they can survive without the latest cell phone (or other gadget or TV show)? For the most part, no. This is one of the things that keeps the current system running. If the normal person in the system wants it or believes that s/he wants it, then they also will do anything to keep it running. To make that kind of a fundamental change in the way people think in a short time frame would probably require some form of mass hypnosis (maybe like the mass media).
LoneBear wrote:The biggest problem most people have with living outside the system, is that the one person they see the most of, is themself.
There are certainly enough distractions to take one's view off of oneself. "Know Thyself" Oracle at Delphi (after all, it's the only thing you're stuck with).

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Post by lvx08 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:19 pm

aluxon wrote:Knowedge should be free in the sense of not costing money to purchase the knowledge itself (people do need to eat though). I think that people should be given knowledge as quickly as it can be assimilated. As you have noted, if this happens too quickly, this knowledge is not assimilated and undesired effects usually happen. If this happens too slowly though, people tend to lose interest in the subject. It has been noted here that the "bright" people in the education system may fall into that category. By assimilated, I mean that the knowledge has gone through the process of being digested and becoming a part of who you are. I don't mean being able to regurgitate an answer on an exam.
Most of what is taught in the education system is not knowledge. It is an assortment of facts, theories and opinions that come in and out of fashion. See Thomas Kuhn, The structure of scientific revolutions.

Knowledge is something very different than facts. Knowledge requires direct experience, that engages the whole person, body, feeling and mind. This rarely happens in a classroom. You can read and attend every lecture in the world on gravity, but until you have experienced gravity, the apple falling on the head, then you have no real knowledge of gravity.

I think knowledge also requires some access to the Archive, or SMC or an inner teacher. First the student needs direct observation of the world around one in order to form a question. Victor Schauberger is a good example. He was fascinated with water and spent most of his formative years just watching streams, rivers coursing and flowing by him. Due to his observations and designs, the jet propulsion engine came about.

I think the mystery schools taught one how to access this knowledge base which would require a sufficiently developed instinct/body, emotional/feeling and thinking/mental capacity. That's what a true education would teach. Having established this solid foundation, then the student would be able to discover what he needs to know. This may not be so easy though.

I came across this on objective art the other day, which I find quite fascinating. I think this sort of art does transmit knowledge

Do such works of objective art exist at the present day?" I asked.

"Of course they exist," answered G (G. I. Gurdjieff). "The great Sphinx in Egypt is such work of art, as well as some historically known works of architecture, certain statues of gods, and many other things. There are figures of gods and of various mythological beings that can be read like books, only not with the mind but with the emotions, provided they are sufficiently developed. In the course of our travels in Central Asia we found, in the desert at the foot of the Hindu Kush, a strange figure which we thought at first was some ancient god or devil. At first it produced upon us simply the impression of being a curiosity. But after a while we began to feel that this figure contained many things, a big, complete, and complex system of cosmology. And slowly, step by step, we began to decipher this system. It was in the body of the figure, in its legs, in its arms, in its head, its eyes, in its ears; everywhere. In the whole statue there was nothing accidental, nothing without meaning. And gradually we understood the aim of the people who built this statue. We began to feel their thoughts, their feelings. Some of us thought that we saw their faces, heard their voices. At all events, we grasped the meaning of what they wanted to convey to us across thousands of years, and not only the meaning, but all the feelings and the emotions connected with it as well. That indeed was art!”

In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching,

aluxon wrote:I have heard a former student of a Catholic school (a large number of years ago) say that if they could get a child from the ages of 3-7, the child would be Catholic for life.
You might be thinking of this quote , "Give me a child until he is 7, and I give you the man" This is what inspired Michael Apted to do his 7 up films, where he has documented a group of Brits from the age of 7 to 50, visiting them every 7 years. They are a fascinating study.

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Arcelius
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Post by Arcelius » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:38 pm

lvx08 wrote:
aluxon wrote:Knowedge should be free in the sense of not costing money to purchase the knowledge itself (people do need to eat though). I think that people should be given knowledge as quickly as it can be assimilated. As you have noted, if this happens too quickly, this knowledge is not assimilated and undesired effects usually happen. If this happens too slowly though, people tend to lose interest in the subject. It has been noted here that the "bright" people in the education system may fall into that category. By assimilated, I mean that the knowledge has gone through the process of being digested and becoming a part of who you are. I don't mean being able to regurgitate an answer on an exam.
Most of what is taught in the education system is not knowledge. It is an assortment of facts, theories and opinions that come in and out of fashion. See Thomas Kuhn, The structure of scientific revolutions.

Knowledge is something very different than facts. Knowledge requires direct experience, that engages the whole person, body, feeling and mind. This rarely happens in a classroom. You can read and attend every lecture in the world on gravity, but until you have experienced gravity, the apple falling on the head, then you have no real knowledge of gravity.
This is what I meant when I was writing about assimilation. Thank-you for adding more description to it!
lvx08 wrote:I think knowledge also requires some access to the Archive, or SMC or an inner teacher. First the student needs direct observation of the world around one in order to form a question. Victor Schauberger is a good example. He was fascinated with water and spent most of his formative years just watching streams, rivers coursing and flowing by him. Due to his observations and designs, the jet propulsion engine came about.

I think the mystery schools taught one how to access this knowledge base which would require a sufficiently developed instinct/body, emotional/feeling and thinking/mental capacity. That's what a true education would teach. Having established this solid foundation, then the student would be able to discover what he needs to know. This may not be so easy though.
How many teachers in the school system today can access the Archive, SMC, inner teacher, etc? Probably not very many. How can they teach something that they have no experience with? This is a daunting challenge!

So a true education involves training/developing someone to be able to access the Archives or something similar? I would think that the reverse may be more true. After being able to access the Archives or something similar, one's true education may begin.

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Re: Education

Post by Gopi » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:09 am

There is a system of learning which is kind of the inverted form of pattern recognition, where you have the pattern already and try to bring out the connection, rather than seeing the connections and recognizing the pattern within. This might help with a lot of stuff which is currently done by rote learning... the right-brained: mathematics, languages, music, painting, typing etc. In my experience, all of those can be learnt inside out, and much faster. The idea is not to "build up" from the basic parts, but to build down... such as holding a tune in your head and playing the instrument till you get the tune out, or painting a scene and adding effects to it till you get the required mood out.
It is time.

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Re:

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:04 pm

Arcelius wrote:How many teachers in the school system today can access the Archive, SMC, inner teacher, etc? Probably not very many. How can they teach something that they have no experience with? This is a daunting challenge!
There is an old saying, "Those who can't DO, teach!"

The "soft" life here in America, where virtually everything is done for you if you consent to be a good economic slave, means that there are few people with hard experience left. The way roles are assigned gives little freedom to explore other areas of interest--do your one, assigned job, and that's it.

Here's another old saying for you, "the greatest weapon a man can possess is intelligence."

When you're a crook, like all governments are these days, you don't want intelligent employees to catch you with your hands in the till.

Experienced teachers are not sought--that's why teaching is one of the lowest-paying jobs in the country. "Ignorance is bliss" and you get what you pay for.
Arcelius wrote:So a true education involves training/developing someone to be able to access the Archives or something similar? I would think that the reverse may be more true. After being able to access the Archives or something similar, one's true education may begin.
Hard experience is necessary for good teaching. Sure, you can read a book on how to play a flute, and teach what you've read to someone else (today's pattern of teaching)... but how well will you play, as compared to being personally taught by a virtuoso?

Talking about something and actually DOING it are two, very different things. Accessing the Archive is fine, but unless you ACT upon the information received, and try it for yourself, the information does little good--you just "index" it, and not integrate the experience of the knowledge, itself.

I think a big part of education involves "hands-on" experience, whether that be pounding in a nail or brewing a potion. Until you actually DO it and experience the consequences, I don't think it really counts as "knowledge."

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Re: Education

Post by Amhlaibh » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:01 pm

I think a big part of education involves "hands-on" experience, whether that be pounding in a nail or brewing a potion. Until you actually DO it and experience the consequences, I don't think it really counts as "knowledge."
I came to that conclusion recently, it is so true.
Learning the knowledge is good and can be easy, putting the knowledge to use is great and can be difficult.
Theory and practical. Ive found Ive done a lot of practical first but with little understanding, as time has passed Ive been able to work on the theory and that has created more understanding.

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