VALIS- Philip K Dick

Discussion of Science Fiction motifs, symbols and allegory.
Post Reply
Juanter
Indagator
Indagator
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:35 pm

VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Juanter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:48 am

I am half way through Philip K Dick's novel Valis. If you haven't read it, I strongly recommend it. Dick is amazing in that it is written in such a way that it feels that he is talking to you personally.

His semi-autobiographical novel details what I would call his ascension into higher realms of understanding, an event in which he was nearly immediately presented with huge amount of information on the universe, our existence, and many things in between. Unfortunately, he may have attributed this to madness. Regardless, he fully details his detailed thoughts on SO many of the general discussions of this website. His discussion of Gnosis and "dreamland" equate very well with the RS theory, to the point that I wonder if he read Larson's theory.

Regardless, he has a discussion about what he calls Phylogenic memory. What we would call the memory of DNA, and how we hold important symbols of our race and culture in the DNA for future reference. I have been working at psychocartography, but I am having difficulty finding what culture or cultures to follow symbolically. I am a typical American "mutt" and have very little understanding of where my family came from. I know I have Cherokee and Choctaw Indian blood(as I am on the Indian rolls), but I am white as snow, so also have a large amount of WASP in me. Any thoughts on how you found your symbology would be helpful.

I would love to have a detailed discussion about this novel if anyone is interested.

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Thu May 02, 2013 6:47 pm

Juanter wrote:I would love to have a detailed discussion about this novel if anyone is interested.
I found a PDF of the book online, so I'll take a read and see what it says. Sounds interesting.

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Thu May 02, 2013 8:03 pm

I'll say that for a suicidal drug addict, Fat is certainly well read. Not many people dive in to Jung, Eliade, Bruno and others. However, his descriptions of being inside a psych ward are rather unsettling, not from a psychological perspective, but from the lack of caring.
Horselover Fat found himself thinking in a language used two thousand years ago, the language in which St. Paul wrote. Here time turns into space.
Time turns into space upon life; Space turns into time upon death.
#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has passed.
Ah, the difference between "time" and "clock time"... clock time only exists in the illusion of 3D space, for the sole purpose of making motion appear as matter. Looks quite different!
#48. Two realms there are, upper and lower. The upper, derived from hyperuniverse I or Yang, Form I of Parmenides, is sentient and volitional. The lower realm, or Yin, Form II of Parmenides, is mechanical, driven by blind, efficient cause, deterministic and without intelligence, since it emanates from a dead source. In ancient times it was termed "astral determinism." We are trapped, by and large, in the lower realm, but are, through the sacraments, by means of the plasmate, extricated. Until astral determinism is broken, we are not even aware of it, so occluded are we. "The Empire never ended."
I believe he is describing Larson's "levels of existence", in Beyond Space and Time. The upper would be the "ethical level" and the lower, the "biological level." Larson also includes a lower, lower level, the inanimate, which Fat omits probably because he is concerned with life and death.

I will also point out that ethical = spiritual = animus = intellectual, so that may explain the "sentient and volitional" attributes associated with the upper/ethical level, as it is the spirit that "acts," rather than the biological "reaction."

(I'm about 25% through the book, if there is anything in particularly you would like to discuss.)

Juanter
Indagator
Indagator
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:35 pm

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Juanter » Sat May 04, 2013 4:09 pm

Lonebear,

Thank you for taking the time to read the novel. I hope you find it as interesting as I do.

I agree with you, throughout the book PKD makes so many references to time/space and space/time issues he is practically describing what I understand Larson's theories to be. He seemed very insightful.

I especially enjoy his thoughts on what he calls Zebra, Plasmate, or Logos. These terms being used for what PKD describes as the "one true god" incarnations into our existence. One's attempt to liberate us from our material prison cells. I liked the Zebra term, as described this "plasmate", as all around us hidden like a Zebra in all things. That is until, the veil of ignorance is lifted by our own actions, then enlightenment and ascension into higher realms is attained. For Fat, the veil was lifted by seeing the christian fish, which triggered his DNA memory to kick in, remembering his past experiences. Once "cross bonded" with the plasmate, starting the process.

FYI, Lonebear, this triggering past memory discussion reminds me greatly of your dreamwork thread and how you were able, through effort to gain dream memory.

I understand that he is describing ancient Gnostic teachings in a new sci-fi way, but for the first time, it makes much more sense to me now after reading PKD describe it. I have to make dinner, but there is much more I would like to discuss.

Also, I found this thread interesting and on point. http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 276896/pg1

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Plasmates

Post by LoneBear » Mon May 06, 2013 10:42 am

Juanter wrote:I especially enjoy his thoughts on what he calls Zebra, Plasmate, or Logos. These terms being used for what PKD describes as the "one true god" incarnations into our existence. One's attempt to liberate us from our material prison cells. I liked the Zebra term, as described this "plasmate", as all around us hidden like a Zebra in all things. That is until, the veil of ignorance is lifted by our own actions, then enlightenment and ascension into higher realms is attained. For Fat, the veil was lifted by seeing the christian fish, which triggered his DNA memory to kick in, remembering his past experiences. Once "cross bonded" with the plasmate, starting the process.
I've been doing some followup research on this idea of a plasmate, which he also describes as "living information." I find that interesting because it is analogous to the Social Memory Complex described in the Ra Material, minus the anthropomorphic aspects.

It would make sense that as an individual developed his spirit complex, what Larson calls an "ethical control unit" in Beyond Space and Time, is of bioenergetic origin and would also be living with have the properties of life, such as the ability to grow and reproduce. This control unit could be considered a cell (or organ) the larger, developing body of an SMC/plasmoid.

I would not consider it a "one true god" situation, however, for though I agree with "one," truth is highly subjective and the etymology of "god" translates to a "slave master," so I would not consider the description to be technically accurate. However, this plasmoid structure may well be a natural consequence of biological evolution into 3D time--which may not be bounded by species.

I am going to have to think about it a bit...

Juanter
Indagator
Indagator
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:35 pm

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Juanter » Tue May 07, 2013 11:37 am

truth is highly subjective and the etymology of "god" translates to a "slave master,"
I agree with that. I think you will know why I described it that way as you continue reading. IE "One" as opposed to our "creator" who falsely believes itself to be "One".

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Tue May 07, 2013 12:37 pm

Juanter wrote:I agree with that. I think you will know why I described it that way as you continue reading. IE "One" as opposed to our "creator" who falsely believes itself to be "One".
Another interesting translation is that a "lord" is a bright light in the sky--not necessarily a star or planet.

I've gotten rather interested in this concept of a plasmoid being a Social Memory Complex (SMC)... it makes a lot of sense, upon consideration. It would be a Shen/Kundalini based living entity, but would have a structure that is the inverse of the group mind.

In a group mind, that "mind" controls the member parts, and the parts, themselves, are irrelevant, as they can be easily replaced. Who is going to miss a few blades of grass in the lawn?

In the SMC, the situation is reversed--the member parts are the controllers and the memory complex is more like the Internet--an interconnecting web of knowledge, skill and information. What I find particularly interesting is that the SMC is also a nonlocalized aspect of the Archive of the Ancients, the "hall of records" left by the Cyclopeans (An's ancestors, the Titans). That means as one integrates with this plasmoid (most likely the same concept of the "thought adjuster" of the Urantia Book), they will also have access to the knowledge contained in the Archive of the Ancients--which is the collective knowledge base of the Cyclopeans. It is not that this plasmoid entity is tapping the "knowledge of the universe," but only this hall of records representing the collective consciousness of an ancient race--left here on Earth, for that very purpose.

I guess the Cyclopeans knew that their kids would get into trouble, and left mankind a "way out!"

MrTwig
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:10 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by MrTwig » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:09 pm

LoneBear wrote:
Juanter wrote:I agree with that. I think you will know why I described it that way as you continue reading. IE "One" as opposed to our "creator" who falsely believes itself to be "One".
Another interesting translation is that a "lord" is a bright light in the sky--not necessarily a star or planet.

I've gotten rather interested in this concept of a plasmoid being a Social Memory Complex (SMC)... it makes a lot of sense, upon consideration. It would be a Shen/Kundalini based living entity, but would have a structure that is the inverse of the group mind.

In a group mind, that "mind" controls the member parts, and the parts, themselves, are irrelevant, as they can be easily replaced. Who is going to miss a few blades of grass in the lawn?

In the SMC, the situation is reversed--the member parts are the controllers and the memory complex is more like the Internet--an interconnecting web of knowledge, skill and information. What I find particularly interesting is that the SMC is also a nonlocalized aspect of the Archive of the Ancients, the "hall of records" left by the Cyclopeans (An's ancestors, the Titans). That means as one integrates with this plasmoid (most likely the same concept of the "thought adjuster" of the Urantia Book), they will also have access to the knowledge contained in the Archive of the Ancients--which is the collective knowledge base of the Cyclopeans. It is not that this plasmoid entity is tapping the "knowledge of the universe," but only this hall of records representing the collective consciousness of an ancient race--left here on Earth, for that very purpose.

I guess the Cyclopeans knew that their kids would get into trouble, and left mankind a "way out!"
Would this be the akashic records? It is suppose to be a complete precise recording of Everything! Every situation imaginable throughout history in images. Just like pictures or cards that if you look at them they move in 3D. To me it matches what you are talking about. There is a hall of inventions mentioned but I believe it is just a place that contains our history. The SMC is not one person but a web of telepathy that associates that require a high degree of experience, right?

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:26 am

MrTwig wrote:Would this be the akashic records? It is suppose to be a complete precise recording of Everything! Every situation imaginable throughout history in images. Just like pictures or cards that if you look at them they move in 3D. To me it matches what you are talking about. There is a hall of inventions mentioned but I believe it is just a place that contains our history. The SMC is not one person but a web of telepathy that associates that require a high degree of experience, right?
The akashic records are more like "etheric blogs," in that they deal with personal accounts and lifetimes.

The Archive of the Ancients is a library of knowledge left by the Cyclopeans on Tiamat, documenting all their experiences, travels and research. It does not contain any information about anyone on Earth. It is more like an explorer's notebook. Over the centuries, people have confused this Archive with "a recording of everything," because the Cyclopeans did a LOT of traveling and have a lot of research. But it isn't everything... just their extensive knowledge.

A social memory complex is much like the telepathic network the LMs use. It allows members to share knowledge and experience, while retaining their individuality. Kind of like accessing the Internet via a chip in your brain, rather than a computer terminal.

MrTwig
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:10 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by MrTwig » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:34 pm

LoneBear wrote:
MrTwig wrote:Would this be the akashic records? It is suppose to be a complete precise recording of Everything! Every situation imaginable throughout history in images. Just like pictures or cards that if you look at them they move in 3D. To me it matches what you are talking about. There is a hall of inventions mentioned but I believe it is just a place that contains our history. The SMC is not one person but a web of telepathy that associates that require a high degree of experience, right?
The akashic records are more like "etheric blogs," in that they deal with personal accounts and lifetimes.

The Archive of the Ancients is a library of knowledge left by the Cyclopeans on Tiamat, documenting all their experiences, travels and research. It does not contain any information about anyone on Earth. It is more like an explorer's notebook. Over the centuries, people have confused this Archive with "a recording of everything," because the Cyclopeans did a LOT of traveling and have a lot of research. But it isn't everything... just their extensive knowledge.
Is there a place for the Archive of the Ancients? I would love to visit that place! Is it like the Smithsonian? Have not been there either but would love to see it personally.
LoneBear wrote:A social memory complex is much like the telepathic network the LMs use. It allows members to share knowledge and experience, while retaining their individuality. Kind of like accessing the Internet via a chip in your brain, rather than a computer terminal.
Just like Apple, there is an app for that.

The new show "Intelligence" that has a man with a super-computer microchip in his brain. He is the first human to be able to access to internet, WIFI, telephone and satellite data with the ability to hack into any system at will. Good for us he works for the US government!

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:51 pm

MrTwig wrote:Is there a place for the Archive of the Ancients? I would love to visit that place! Is it like the Smithsonian? Have not been there either but would love to see it personally.
Yes, there are still two remaining places that access the Archive, one in South America and another in Madagascar. The one in Peru is known to the natives of the area as the "library of the Universe," though it does not look anything like the Smithsonian. Both have the same "stone forest" design.

I would suspect there are others, such as Shilin in China and Lena in Russia, but I've never researched it.
MrTwig wrote:The new show "Intelligence" that has a man with a super-computer microchip in his brain. He is the first human to be able to access to internet, WIFI, telephone and satellite data with the ability to hack into any system at will. Good for us he works for the US government!
Should be interesting when hackers get access to his base code, and he starts running around the street acting like a chicken!

MrTwig
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:10 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by MrTwig » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:03 pm

LoneBear wrote:
MrTwig wrote:Is there a place for the Archive of the Ancients? I would love to visit that place! Is it like the Smithsonian? Have not been there either but would love to see it personally.
Yes, there are still two remaining places that access the Archive, one in South America and another in Madagascar. The one in Peru is known to the natives of the area as the "library of the Universe," though it does not look anything like the Smithsonian. Both have the same "stone forest" design.

I would suspect there are others, such as Shilin in China and Lena in Russia, but I've never researched it.
Cool! So they are written in stone? Or is it a petrified forest? I assume it is in the Andes.
LoneBear wrote:
MrTwig wrote:The new show "Intelligence" that has a man with a super-computer microchip in his brain. He is the first human to be able to access to internet, WIFI, telephone and satellite data with the ability to hack into any system at will. Good for us he works for the US government!
Should be interesting when hackers get access to his base code, and he starts running around the street acting like a chicken!
So the chicken dance it is! Jailbreak! Da, DA, Da, Da, DA, Da, DA!

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:01 am

MrTwig wrote:Cool! So they are written in stone? Or is it a petrified forest? I assume it is in the Andes.
I've never seen for myself, but as it was explained to me it is etched into crystals at the atomic level, such that the information resonates with consciousness to create a type of telepathic bond between the person and the information. And we're talking some BIG crystals here, that make the Mexico crystals seem tiny.

Image

Whereas telepathy is nonlocal, you do not have to be near it to use it--you just have to find the gateway. These "access terminals" to the Archive are just places on the Earth where the conditions are optimal for making the connection, and the stone forest is a consequence of that kind of energy. Physical locality is not necessary.

Ilkka
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 714
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Ilkka » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:57 am

LoneBear wrote:Whereas telepathy is nonlocal, you do not have to be near it to use it--you just have to find the gateway. These "access terminals" to the Archive are just places on the Earth where the conditions are optimal for making the connection, and the stone forest is a consequence of that kind of energy. Physical locality is not necessary.
Hmm. I wonder could there be such a place in Finland?
Which factors makes the optimal condition for this connection in question, maybe I could find the place this way myself?
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:42 am

Ilkka wrote:Hmm. I wonder could there be such a place in Finland?
Which factors makes the optimal condition for this connection in question, maybe I could find the place this way myself?
Put "stone forest" in a search engine, and look at some of the photos. Then you can see if they match any place in Finland.

I do not know what makes these places optimal; I just noticed the correlation between the stones that look like a forest of trees and the translations of the ancient names of them--all referring to some kind of place of higher knowledge, that is accessed through meditation.

I found the gateway when I was living in the Shirley Basin--my nearest neighbor was 30 miles away, with nothing but prairie dogs and antelope between. I guess when your mind gets to quiet down from all the noise of other people and technology, it starts to notice these things.

MrTwig
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:10 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by MrTwig » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:40 pm

LoneBear wrote:Whereas telepathy is nonlocal, you do not have to be near it to use it--you just have to find the gateway. These "access terminals" to the Archive are just places on the Earth where the conditions are optimal for making the connection, and the stone forest is a consequence of that kind of energy. Physical locality is not necessary.
Can it be reached by dreams if you are able to do that? I have heard of vortexes that create a better environment to learn things in meditation. If telepathy is non-local then could it be reached from where ever you are? It seems to me that these places are to only allow those with the proper abilities needed to approach it.

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by LoneBear » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:49 am

MrTwig wrote:Can it be reached by dreams if you are able to do that?
I do not recall ever having accessed the Archive in a dream. It has always been in a transitional state, either meditation or the hypnogogic/hypnopompic state.
MrTwig wrote:I have heard of vortexes that create a better environment to learn things in meditation.
Depends on what kind of vortex you are talking about. Trying to meditate in the center of a tornado would probably not be very productive!
MrTwig wrote:If telepathy is non-local then could it be reached from where ever you are?
Yes, but it is far more difficult in areas that are high in psychic turbulence, such as cities. In the city, I'd recommend a mid-afternoon meditation, when most people are awake and have their metaphysical senses shut down or numbed out.
MrTwig wrote:It seems to me that these places are to only allow those with the proper abilities needed to approach it.
I have found that, from personal experience, "knowledge protects itself" within the Archive. In other words, if you do not have a world view that cannot accept new knowledge, you simply cannot access that section of the Archive. It is only when you have that "ah-ha!" moment, and your world view expands, that the information becomes available.

When a muggle visits a stone forest, all they come back with is a lot of pictures of tall, skinny rocks, because they never "see" what is actually there. It is a type of "blind door" security system; you have to know that there is a secret door, before you can set out to find it and open it.

User avatar
dave432
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:59 am

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by dave432 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:15 pm

LoneBear wrote: Put "stone forest" in a search engine, and look at some of the photos.
I searched for one more or less in my neck of the woods...
Both of the these rock formations are part of the "Garden of the Gods" and are located at Shawnee National Forest in Southern Illinois, USA.

Image



Image
"just down the road a little way, turn left, cross the drawbridge, and you will be my guest tonight."
-- directions to the grail castle. We'll have some toast.

User avatar
DSKlausler
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 12:03 pm
Location: My bubble outside Chicago.

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by DSKlausler » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:41 am

LoneBear wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:42 am
I found the gateway when I was living in the Shirley Basin--my nearest neighbor was 30 miles away, with nothing but prairie dogs and antelope between.
A bit of a ghost town now, if I recall correctly.

Just curious... did you investigate The Archive?
Anything is possible with the proper training.

User avatar
Tamila27
Discens
Discens
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:30 am

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Tamila27 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:33 am

I found a PDF of the book online

User avatar
Andrew
Cellarius
Cellarius
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:53 am

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Andrew » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:39 pm

Welcome, Tamila. Please make yourself at home, and ask any questions you feel along the way. I must thank you in this instance. For the couple years I've been here, I haven't come across this thread. Our library is extensive. It seems appropriate that this line of information should be revisited given the recent interest in silicon consciousness.

Bruce,
I've never seen for myself, but as it was explained to me it is etched into crystals at the atomic level, such that the information resonates with consciousness to create a type of telepathic bond between the person and the information. And we're talking some BIG crystals here, that make the Mexico crystals seem tiny.

Image
So has this been a hint in your mind that silicon, of which crystals are composed, can store and transmit information to a carbon-based consciousness despite the theory silicon-based life and carbon-based life are incompatible? It sounds like a Jedi to Kyber crystal resonance hypothesis. Have you learned anything different in your connection with M5 or what's the deal?

**
Edit = add: Blue mist force ghost?

Image
"Classical historians traditionally dismiss tales of magic as unworthy of scholarly attention, but to us any mention of a witch's broomstick or wizard's wand evokes the smell of a scientist's laboratory." The Sphinx and the Megaliths

Juanter
Indagator
Indagator
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:35 pm

Re: VALIS- Philip K Dick

Post by Juanter » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Always love seeing an old thread come back to life. The book was amazing.

Post Reply