Does Heaven close Its doors?

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LoneBear
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Does Heaven close Its doors?

Post by LoneBear » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:12 pm

I was reading through the gospels in our old, family Bible and found this interesting statement by St. Luke:
Luke 4:25 wrote:...in the days of Elias, when Heaven was shut up for three years and six months, a great famine came over the land.
I just found it rather odd that Heaven, the home of God, would close its doors for 3.5 years. considering it was always described to me in Catechism as an ethereal place, a non-physical domain that was ruled by an all-powerful deity. There are also a number of other references about Heaven being under attack. When I was taught the Catholic faith when young, these things were not mentioned.

I did notice that they changed the translation from "Heaven" to "sky" in modern Bibles (mine is the Catholic, 1956 version).

During my reading, I also noticed that the God of the Old Testament behaves very differently from the God of the New Testament. The older God is wrathful, vengeful and goes around smiting people and sending all sorts of plagues. The newer God is much more concerned with healing people and teaching them to get along with each other. I have to wonder that, when heaven was "shut up" during those days of Elias, the old God got overthrown by someone else? The Sumerian records state that God, An, was overthrown by his son Enlil, who continued to pose as "the original." Makes me wonder.
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Re: Does Heaven close Its doors?

Post by Ilkka » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:54 am

LoneBear wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:12 pm
I have to wonder that, when heaven was "shut up" during those days of Elias, the old God got overthrown by someone else? The Sumerian records state that God, An, was overthrown by his son Enlil, who continued to pose as "the original." Makes me wonder.
I might be like the politics thesedays, revolution/takeover the show of might. Making slaves to fear the Gods even more if some of them were having ideas at that time, that just was not mentioned in the history books.
Enjoy the Silence

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Re: Does Heaven close Its doors?

Post by Gopi » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:42 am

LoneBear wrote:I just found it rather odd that Heaven, the home of God, would close its doors for 3.5 years.
The full quote says more... it also mentions that Elias/Elijah was sent to specific people. So the "Heavens" were still active, it was most likely the people who are to be blamed for losing the connection with Heaven, so that it was "shut up" for them. For those who were worthy, help was still given... Help is always given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it. The worthy in this case were specifically named to be the "outsiders": a Syrian, a Sidonian, in other words, Gentiles. Not those of Israel, the Isrealites or Jews, even if there were many "lepers" there.

Also interesting are the words Jesus uses to describe the situation in that context. It looks like people in Nazareth are expecting him to perform healing in their town, and since Jesus was from Nazareth, it literally WAS his hometown. So that is why he expects them to demand "Physician Heal Thyself", he anticipates them saying something like: Well, you healed in other towns like Capernaum, why don't you heal in your own hometown? He instead mentions that a prophet is first of all never acceptable in his own hometown, and is usually taken for granted, and mentions an example from history where even though there was a lot of plague on the land, healing was administered only to the worthwhile, even if they are outsiders. Not automatically to the countrymen. He basically calls the listeners out as those who have lost their connection to "Heaven" due to their own corruption as in the historical example, and boy were they angry! It looks like they literally hounded him out for daring to call them out.
LoneBear wrote:During my reading, I also noticed that the God of the Old Testament behaves very differently from the God of the New Testament. The older God is wrathful, vengeful and goes around smiting people and sending all sorts of plagues. The newer God is much more concerned with healing people and teaching them to get along with each other.
The Old Testament is a record of when the Kali Yuga was just beginning just after the time of Egypt, about 3000 BC, and by then people had lost most of their connection to Heaven, and they had not yet built up their own inner strength, and were more like sheep. It was literally an era where per their inner strength, they were like spoilt kids... and you know how it is, spare the rod, spoil the child. And they needed to be given strict orders, or commandments, from the outside through their leaders. God worked through "Wrath" because that was the only avenue available to the average human being's soul: his feeling life.

New Testament turns the whole thing around and evolves further, and the earlier commandments turn into "Love Thy Neighbor". Unfortunately, with the start of Augustinian Christianity, the Catholic Church lapsed back into Old Testament mode, and ignored the Pauline and Johannian traditions completely. That is why even today people still behave as if God should work into them from outside ("10 things to do to have a good life!" etc.) and give them orders or save them... they are missing the whole point of individual freedom in the New Testament: "... and the Truth shall set you free".
It is time.

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Re: Does Heaven close Its doors?

Post by Lozion » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:01 pm

I see a rivalry between the brothers more likely then a father Vs son (An Vs EnLiL) feud. The original "Creator" attested in the Tanakh is the benevolent/Omniscient one: EL and various epithets, Elyon, Shaddai, etc. I alluded to this in my thread "The Path beckons":

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=2170&p=17591#p17537

It is much later that the Mosaic YHWE, the angry, war-like figure appears, presupposing an apparent "coup". Elijah preaches for YHWH against Baal but here the identities are inverted, EnLil (YHWH) is the usurper and directs the Jews against his brother ENKi.

The "Creator" of the New Testament attempts a correction and return to the original "Divine principle", above An and his scion.
In rapport we thrive, in rivalry we strive.

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