What every happened to Ethics?

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LoneBear
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What every happened to Ethics?

Post by LoneBear » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:25 pm

In my day, morality and ethics were a big part of growing up, and you were punished when you behaved badly. It taught right from wrong, at least in the social context of the period.

I was watching some YouTube videos on theft, particularly "package theft" where people follow delivery trucks around then steal packages left at the front door of houses. They are calling them "package pirates" now. It's shocking... when these people get confronted or caught stealing, they just put the package back and walk away, "no harm done." They don't seem to have any idea that what they are doing is WRONG! Same with shoplifting. They get caught, apologize for being caught, and just walk out the door. People are always threatening to call the police, or pretend that they did, but never follow through--so they are getting away with it, over and over.

And I've noticed that these pirates are from all walks of life; guys in 3-piece suits, people in uniforms, just every-day folks.

I don't know if it is the breakdown of the family and home, the lack of education, the banning of corporal punishment (parent's cannot even spank their kids anymore!), or the use of technology that is somehow interfering with the conscience. But it is as though people lack conscience now. This concerns me because it means that the evolution of consciousness has nearly come to a halt... as Larson would put it, no "ethical control units" are being created, which are necessary for mankind to move to the next stage of human development. And these units aren't created by default--they have to be created as an act of will.

If people are no longer being taught the difference between right and wrong, and there is no punishment for doing wrong... where does that leave society?
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by DSKlausler » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:59 am

A good one from way back in my support days: "Reboot PC"

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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by Lozion » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:19 am

"Where does that leave society?"

On the road to Nowheresville I'm afraid..
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by 7Serpent » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:58 pm

Lozion wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:19 am
"Where does that leave society?"

On the road to Nowheresville I'm afraid..

It is sad to see, its everywhere now. Beam me up Scotty, this experiment is over..$$

I got terminated today...sounds not ethical, but that is what the word boss used as he said thats what he came for his visit today. Yep and right before he told me that he had asked me some questions on a project I was working on and then casually asked if I had a minute, wanted to talk in the conference room. At that point I saw it coming. I'm over 50 now and this is the 3rd time of losing my job for none other than more people than chairs. First time was over 25 years ago and back then i got a severance package, you know : weeks of pay for years of service, something like that. This time I didn't even get a chicken dinner, not even a thank you for years of service. Not even a reason was even checked or filled in on the separation form. It was called a separation notice and begins with Reason for Notice, and well it was blank. I asked , "What's was the reason?" answer. " others weren't doing good at their job?? what ?? I had no idea that was my area. At any rate the form was blank or unchecked by Voluntary Quit, blank by Refusal of Re-employment, blank by lay-off. Next line was y Other reason, please state: but he underline zone where a remark is added is also empty..nothing there? Under that was an Explanation of separation which was as follows: Performance does not meet expectations. I sort of mumbled but the reason is blank and he says But you really are very knowledgeable, and I'm sorry. I never read the entire page at the time, what's the point, there is no point. Interesting though he adds we are going in a different direction and that was it. They also walked out 3 others which I didn't know about at the time from another facility.

What is amazing is how the populous is so mesmerized by the media. I recall a few months back a headline with Trump and the leader of CHina smiling and shaking hands and the headline reads something like.. both sides call off trade war and cancel all tariffs. Really, thats it huh?? just joking around with us lesser slaves or what? playing Bingo or something..Tariff icko and screw the planet and then say gotcha..just kidding. Thinking about it didn't Trump start it? And who suffers...working people on both sides of the pond. We in the USA buy so much product from the LArgest supplier and then whats the logic of a trade war when your country buys everything to begin with. Of course there must have been lay-offs in China as well..do they have any ethics? WHat did happen was the Ag markets suffered terribly, sorta was in the news. Farmers paid the price for a war they never heard before, the trade war. Farmers without a market can't buy equipment and the Company I used to work for made lots of Ag components. SO Ag wen south and now I need a new job.. not much different when Bush W sent work literally south to Mexico NAFTTA and again..no J O B. Now no ethics either, just terminated.

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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by Ilkka » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:06 pm

Isn't it wrong when being punished for saying something that is "hate speech", which were freedom of speech some years ago. There are those who evade taxes and something similar stealing from the country in other words they are being punished more severely than those who commit murder or rape. Stealing from shops etc. is very mild compared to killing so it is just so easy to do it, because you dont get to go to jail for that.

In Finland there is no such deliveries on your door step. The system here is different they either give the package to you personally on your door step or if you aren't at home then you can pick it up from local postal office later on. There are these "post boxes" in the some local grocery stores that open with a code that they give you in a text message when they are ready to be picked up from there, its been operational for some years now and is quicker than picking up from postal office which is further away and needs queueing for service. There is a case from last Chrismas eve where this one family had their presents stolen, because they left the bag outside of their house for just awhile (sort of a tradition when Santa comes with the bag of presents and all that, our family didnt have that though).

There are so many people stealing little things from shops, because of that very reason and they live on social security/welfare so they dont own anything most likely many (if not all) are drug abusers. These people will never work since everything they might own the distrainor will come to collect immediately all that they might own otherwise with clean papers. Thats the way they do it in Finland. The worst tax evaders go to jail they don't have a choice in the matter, though. I think its messed up since the little shop owners are being punished, because insurance doesn't pay for the minor items that are stolen, like few hundreads worth of items at a time, so theres that too. I thought that the insurence would cover the little robbings, but someone said that it doesnt and I was like WTF, why to have insurance then if it doesnt cover minor ones like that. Thats unjustice I tell you.

Everyone (not every single one of course and someones are rotten to their very core) is a robber or abuser, if not lawfully then unlawfully, when they get the chance. How that old saying went, "Opportunity makes a thief" is a straight translation and thats how they say it in here.

I bet that some of those package thiefs are having opportunity presented to them and they just take it, perhaps out of curiosity or the rush. I have stolen money from my parents wallets when I was a teenager and the last time was when my mom caught me, cant remember how many times I did take a little money, some coins mostly for sweets. Never stolen anything other than that and dont plan on doing those things, because I dont need to. And the fact that it is wrong to steal. Probably thats why I didn't have sex with this one girl who was dating my friend back several years ago. Plus the thing that I couldn't read the signs I just thought she wanted to hang out, but later on I knew she was into me in that way. Turned out that she later cheated on my friend and they broke up not too long after my missed chance. Maybe I have some "bro code" too, because I dont or cant be with anyone thats already taken, that I know of course. Unknowinly the story might be different. I would first query though if the one is taken before having more physical contact other than hand shaking or hugging.

Maybe thats why I dont have a girlfriend :D
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by LoneBear » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:14 pm

7Serpent wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:58 pm
I got terminated today...sounds not ethical, but that is what the word boss used as he said thats what he came for his visit today. Yep and right before he told me that he had asked me some questions on a project I was working on and then casually asked if I had a minute, wanted to talk in the conference room. At that point I saw it coming. I'm over 50 now and this is the 3rd time of losing my job for none other than more people than chairs. First time was over 25 years ago and back then i got a severance package, you know : weeks of pay for years of service, something like that. This time I didn't even get a chicken dinner, not even a thank you for years of service. Not even a reason was even checked or filled in on the separation form.
That sucks; I've been there myself. Of course, I've always been a troublemaker for big business... brilliant at the work I did, but would not conform to the corporate image. So they would find cute ways to get rid of me, rather than deal with me, like "you're being downsized." But it those days, you got a good deal... usually 6 months salary continuation and full benefits, to give you time to find a new job. Never had a problem getting a new job, as I had quite a reputation in the field for getting the job done--on time and under budget. Curiously enough, several of the companies I've worked for that chose to terminate me went out of business a few months later... and I ended up with the better end of the deal, as those that stuck it out got screwed. Guess that what happens when you choose a fake image over real skills.

So don't look at it as an end, but a new beginning. I've always ended up in a better situation with a new job... sometimes you need a kick in the butt when you get stuck on the Path and don't realize it.
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Loopy Brains

Post by LoneBear » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:52 pm

I've noticed something else on the YouTube videos concerning crime and relationship problems... young people cannot seem to provide any form of logical argument to support their claim/desire. All they do is constantly repeat the same phrase, over and over.

There was this one situation where an ex-girlfriend wanted to see her old boyfriend again, and he did not want anything to do with her. She stood, banging on the door, for 20 minutes constantly repeating "let me in!" -- not a single, other word. I figure 2 seconds per phrase is 30/minute or 600 times! The guy was trying to find out what she wanted, but she would not say anything else.

Then I noticed a LOT of young people do the same thing, at traffic accidents, other relationship problems... any social situation that one would consider frustrating or get angry over. It is like the brain gets locked in a loop, but considering the highly repetitive music these people listen to (if you can call it music), it really doesn't surprise me. It's almost like the linear, cause-and-effect thought process has been damaged and replaced by this loop, where if you repeat something often enough, your "target" will eventually get frustrated and give into your demand. I don't think it is on purpose--it is the only methodology they have learned.
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by DSKlausler » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:59 am

LoneBear wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:14 pm
7Serpent wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:58 pm
I got terminated today...sounds not ethical, but that is what the word boss used as he said thats what he came for his visit today. Yep and right before he told me that he had asked me some questions on a project I was working on and then casually asked if I had a minute, wanted to talk in the conference room. At that point I saw it coming. I'm over 50 now and this is the 3rd time of losing my job for none other than more people than chairs. First time was over 25 years ago and back then i got a severance package, you know : weeks of pay for years of service, something like that. This time I didn't even get a chicken dinner, not even a thank you for years of service. Not even a reason was even checked or filled in on the separation form.
That sucks; I've been there myself. Of course, I've always been a troublemaker for big business... brilliant at the work I did, but would not conform to the corporate image. So they would find cute ways to get rid of me, rather than deal with me, like "you're being downsized." But it those days, you got a good deal... usually 6 months salary continuation and full benefits, to give you time to find a new job. Never had a problem getting a new job, as I had quite a reputation in the field for getting the job done--on time and under budget. Curiously enough, several of the companies I've worked for that chose to terminate me went out of business a few months later... and I ended up with the better end of the deal, as those that stuck it out got screwed. Guess that what happens when you choose a fake image over real skills.

So don't look at it as an end, but a new beginning. I've always ended up in a better situation with a new job... sometimes you need a kick in the butt when you get stuck on the Path and don't realize it.
Ugh, me too.

I was furious... no reason given other than "reduction in force". Beautiful Illinois requires NO REASON AT ALL. My boss at the time was a spineless weenie. I knew that it was because of two things: 1) I was at the top of their pay scale, and 2) I was the oldest. Didn't matter to them that I was the most efficient coder. However, my next position, acquired in only 3 days into a 6 week severance, gave me advancements that I would never have had in the old place.
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by 7Serpent » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:30 am

Yep this world is in terrible shape..

I have no worries on being without a 9-5>> (9 - 9 actually) I said Yes, I'm a freeman now ! lol I live in the country and therefore it won't be possible to find work doing what I did at the pay I was getting without moving. Anyway can live for a while without their J O B bologna.. Was tired of making my weenie nice guy Boss who was no engineering manager, nothing but a title in his case, look good for solving all their mistakes so to speak. And like Lonebear, I never can keep my mouth shut and be their special company drone. They never know what to do with the "misfits" that make them lots of money..lol Always love playing that part !! Anyway short update, found out yesterday they are closing the doors 12/20 - 1/6, apparently making payroll and forcing others to use up their vacation or else stay home unpaid is the new plan. Never happened before in their 75+ year history. The greedy owner's mistakes are coming home to roost...

Changing the subject back to being on topic (don't want to appear loopy here for too long ... :D : )

Check this utube video and >>>>Talking about the lack of ETHICS !!! <<<< unbelievable whats been and is going with HUMAN cloning. Always knew "they" were doing it, but haven't heard any details like this before..

https://youtu.be/cuzA_p5at4U

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Re: Loopy Brains

Post by Ilkka » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:57 am

LoneBear wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:52 pm
I've noticed something else on the YouTube videos concerning crime and relationship problems... young people cannot seem to provide any form of logical argument to support their claim/desire. All they do is constantly repeat the same phrase, over and over.

There was this one situation where an ex-girlfriend wanted to see her old boyfriend again, and he did not want anything to do with her. She stood, banging on the door, for 20 minutes constantly repeating "let me in!" -- not a single, other word. I figure 2 seconds per phrase is 30/minute or 600 times! The guy was trying to find out what she wanted, but she would not say anything else.

Then I noticed a LOT of young people do the same thing, at traffic accidents, other relationship problems... any social situation that one would consider frustrating or get angry over. It is like the brain gets locked in a loop, but considering the highly repetitive music these people listen to (if you can call it music), it really doesn't surprise me. It's almost like the linear, cause-and-effect thought process has been damaged and replaced by this loop, where if you repeat something often enough, your "target" will eventually get frustrated and give into your demand. I don't think it is on purpose--it is the only methodology they have learned.
In other words people are getting simple minded or not evolving fast enough as they did in the olden days. I've seen something like that also in Youtube, didn't pay much attention to it though.

I remember this one Youtube video that said young people are getting dumber, because of not doing handwriting anymore. It had some research done by some people maybe a university. I not totally fooled by my memory it was a "Thoughty2" who made that video. This might be one part of the reason also or not. Of course it is easier and faster to type, but it takes some parts from motor skills away when just pressing keyboard or smartphone screen. My handwriting looks awful, because I never liked to do that in school too much writing we had or not interesting subjects to me. I still can do the handwriting signature. In my adult life I have only done signatures with handwriting/penmanship (both have that type of writing as translation but maybe you get what I am trying to say), which is not writing this type of font (Times roman) but the older kind of "pretty" writing. That kind of writing they dont teach in schools anymore here in Finland, so I only wonder what kind of signatures they are going to make in the next 10-20 years since they dont know how to write like I do anymore. Kids do write by hand, but some other typeface such as Times roman I think. Here it is, had to go and check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive

Thats what I mean, so it was penmanship. Oddly enough it translated also to handwriting, maybe they are the one and the same, you be the judge native english language users :)
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by dave432 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:49 pm

LoneBear wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:14 pm

Curiously enough, several of the companies I've worked for that chose to terminate me went out of business a few months later... and I ended up with the better end of the deal, as those that stuck it out got screwed. Guess that what happens when you choose a fake image over real skills.

So don't look at it as an end, but a new beginning. I've always ended up in a better situation with a new job... sometimes you need a kick in the butt when you get stuck on the Path and don't realize it.
You're reminding me of a similar pattern throughout my work history; I have had an uncanny knack for getting hired at companies that went out of business either after I left or while I was still there. After a while I got to wondering if I was getting a kick in the butt from the Universe in some instances because once I get comfortable with something I resist change more and more. I get attached to people, places and things. Or maybe I was learning about endings and impermanence. If the company goes out of business, you have to move on. No choice. Same thing with relationships. And yes, whatever was required to advance my learning was what came next for me. This always amazes me. In time it finally seemed clear that there is an intelligence involved in evolution at all levels.
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Re: What every happened to Ethics?

Post by LoneBear » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 pm

7Serpent wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:30 am
Check this utube video and >>>>Talking about the lack of ETHICS !!! <<<< unbelievable whats been and is going with HUMAN cloning. Always knew "they" were doing it, but haven't heard any details like this before.. https://youtu.be/cuzA_p5at4U
Dr. Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park wrote:Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
Ilkka wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:57 am
young people are getting dumber, because of not doing handwriting anymore.
Knowing something of how the different sections of the brain work, and in particular, work together, that makes sense to me. It is like the discovery that the digestive system has an intelligence to it, as well. (Or it did, which vanished with fast food!) The more primitive parts of the brain also form intelligence, which connects the analysis portions of the neocortex to a series of "scripts" that the body can execute to get out of problems and perform tasks, without having to tie up the higher thought processes with mundane tasks. These are built through repetitive movement, such as exercise, handwriting or working with tools. When you remove those features, then you cut yourself off from that intelligence that could save your life.

I think that may also be part of that "looping" people get in, and why repetition is SO popular--from music to video games. In my day, we had to invent most of our games when we went outside to "play" (something else lost to children). That tries out different possibilities with different outcomes, so should you encounter something similar in later life, at least you've worked out some of the kinks on what to do. I've noticed repeatedly that young folks freeze up like a deer in a car's headlights when confronted with something they don't have an "App" for!
dave432 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:49 pm
I get attached to people, places and things. Or maybe I was learning about endings and impermanence.
The way I view it was that my presence tends to "fill a leak" in the company... you are there not for upper management, but for all the folks that need the job to support their families and Nature is trying to give them a second chance or some more time. Unfortunately, management never sees it that way--too much trouble to have that dirty janitor with his finger stuck in a hole, when their image is so important. So they pull the plug and go down with the ship.

BTW, I'll take a muffin! :D
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