Vajra and Astra

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Gopi
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Vajra and Astra

Post by Gopi » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:19 am

There is a lot of scattered literature online regarding the various interpretations of the epic wars of Atlantis and Lemuria... giving rise to the questions: what actually happened, and where did it happen?

There are many parallels that have occurred in the recounting of various stories all over the world. For example, the Gods Indra, Zeus and Thor have identical characteristics... as do the stories of Tripura, Lanka and Atlantis. Dwarfs of the Norse are the Yakshas of the Indians, and Jotuns/Giants are the Daanavas/Daityas of India etc. There are two types of collaborations one finds with these stories.

  • Physical correspondences: The physical appearance of the Gods, and men, the physical appearance of the places where they reigned, and the similarities in their names. Even the kind of weapons used (Vajra of Indra, Lightning bolt of Zeus etc.) help us to form the connecting links between them.
  • Symbolic correspondences: This is found more often, where there is a parallel in the themes, and motifs which recur, in widely distributed places. An example is the attribution of the Milky Way to the Ganges in India, Nile in Egypt and Amazon in South America. Another is that of the recurring motifs in Iliad and the Mahabharata, and Eddas and Vedas. Same events under different headings.

Wherever the battle involves the "Gods" of the time, the idea is to separate out those which have occurred in the physical world with those that have their basis in the Astral World. In the Mahabharata, for example, it is mentioned again and again that the great sages and advanced beings accumulated in the skies to witness the great battles that took place. In all probability this is the collection of advanced beings in the Social Memory Complex. And if the SMC is the "sky" then the "earth" would be the Astral World.

A localized event in the Astral World would be a delocalized event in the physical world i.e. every culture would have its own version of the event by describing it in its own set of symbols, right down to identifying similar places in their country... similar to the expression of Archetypes. A physical correspondence would show how the stories spread via the migration of races, while the symbolic correspondence would show the history of a single event in different forms. When we have both physical and symbolic similarities (as is the case with Norse and Vedic) one can be reasonably sure that they are talking about the SAME event, even the two civilizations aren't exactly next door neighbours.

The Mahabharata/Trojan War was such an "astral" war, which is why it is difficult to find any conclusive physical or Archaeological evidence for the same. It would also explain the extensive uses of "Astras", the equivalent of missiles with a good dose of Magick and spells (mantras). It is most likely that the veiling fell into place completely after that war, which thus began the Kali Yuga. Hence, while comparing the mythologies from around the world, one gains an understanding not only with regard to the symbols and archetypes expressed by each Transplant civilization, but also the historical Astral events that took place.

Another aspect that comes into play here is that the different planets of the Solar System, which are physically non-localized, would be localized in the Astral world-view, with the result that groups such as the Confederation of Planets would be right next door. This would explain many mythical characters and advanced beings entering the stories at odd times, like viewers of a movie.

A side note on the Vajra: it appears that the place where the Vajra was made is very close to where I stay, hardly a 100 km!
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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by LoneBear » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:37 pm

Gopi wrote:For example, the Gods Indra, Zeus and Thor have identical characteristics... as do the stories of Tripura, Lanka and Atlantis.
I have been thinking about Thor lately, and his connection with Zeus and Indra. When you come right down to it, it is Odin (Wotan) that is the closer match, not Thor.

Reasoning: Thor was known as the god of thunder (not lightning). Thor's hammer, Mjollnir, means "crusher" in English--not "zapper". Mjollnir was famed to topple even the tallest of mountains, and was never thrown so far that it could not return to its owner (like the Javanese Keris, it had a spirit, was intelligent and had spatial mobility under its own power). Now to me, "thunder", "crusher" and toppling mountains sounds more like an earthquake, NOT a bolt of lightning. When Thor's hammer hit something, the ground split open. If you even notice the design, the inverted T shape, it has the shovel-shape and looks like a weapon to split open the ground, not the sky.

Now consider Odin. His weapon was Gungnir--a magical spear that could not be destroyed. Similar spiritual attributes to Mjollnir, but was hurtled through the sky and came down upon its enemies like a bolt of lightning. Also, in the pantheon of gods, Zeus and Odin were both leaders--Thor was just "general," in charge of killing giants. The war between the AEsir (Asura) and Vanir (Vanaara) started when Odin threw his spear over the heads of a Vanir delegation (perhaps nuking India in the process, starting the war in the Mahabharata?)
Gopi wrote:An example is the attribution of the Milky Way to the Ganges in India, Nile in Egypt and Amazon in South America. Another is that of the recurring motifs in Iliad and the Mahabharata, and Eddas and Vedas. Same events under different headings.
There are usually cities designated as the "center/navel of the world", Cuzco in South America, Cairo in Egypt... any city in India that is considered the "center" in the old stories? Probably phonetically similar?
Gopi wrote:In the Mahabharata, for example, it is mentioned again and again that the great sages and advanced beings accumulated in the skies to witness the great battles that took place. In all probability this is the collection of advanced beings in the Social Memory Complex. And if the SMC is the "sky" then the "earth" would be the Astral World.
I don't think they would be in the SMC, as that would make them part of the battle, so to speak. They probably just parked their chariots in geosynchronous orbits, grabbed some popcorn and watched the fun. Curious how the #1 motif in the entertainment industry is STILL the Roman Colosseum, except our gladiators are baseball, football and soccer teams, and the actors of the television/movie industry. All promoting "battles" for entertainment.
Gopi wrote:A localized event in the Astral World would be a delocalized event in the physical world i.e. every culture would have its own version of the event by describing it in its own set of symbols, right down to identifying similar places in their country... similar to the expression of Archetypes.
Since Gopi and I have discussed the Norse sagas and the Vedas for several years, the similarities are remarkable. It is just like two people recorded the events in their own languages, trying to represent words (vibrational sound complexes) as best they could, ending up with Vanir and Vanaara, et al.

In the Norse, the bulk of recorded material is from Sybil--a "witch"--who had extraordinary powers to see into the 9 other realms and describe what is there. One wouldn't think a clairvoyant would be needed to describe a physical war!
Gopi wrote:A side note on the Vajra: it appears that the place where the Vajra was made is very close to where I stay, hardly a 100 km!
I would be curious to know if fulgarites (lightning glass) are common in that area, or if there are any legends of a meteor impact (something falling from the sky, used to make magical weapons).

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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by Gopi » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:39 am

LoneBear wrote:The war between the AEsir (Asura) and Vanir (Vanaara) started when Odin threw his spear over the heads of a Vanir delegation (perhaps nuking India in the process, starting the war in the Mahabharata?)
Funnily enough, only Hanuman is mentioned properly in the Mahabharata, and that too in the Himalaya, which might mean that the bulk of the advanced Vaanaras had already relocated to their favorite place.

Indra did throw his thunderbolt at Hanuman though, injuring his jaw. So he might have started the Ramayana war.
LoneBear wrote:There are usually cities designated as the "center/navel of the world", Cuzco in South America, Cairo in Egypt... any city in India that is considered the "center" in the old stories? Probably phonetically similar?
I just returned from there: Sitapur. It has a big circular fountain there, marking the point, called Chakratheertha. (Chakra means a discus/drill) And it is said to be there since yugas... as old as it gets.
LoneBear wrote:All promoting "battles" for entertainment.
And many a time, these visitors showered flowers when they saw a particularly fantastic battle. Or did they shower popcorn on people? :D
LoneBear wrote:In the Norse, the bulk of recorded material is from Sybil--a "witch"--who had extraordinary powers to see into the 9 other realms and describe what is there. One wouldn't think a clairvoyant would be needed to describe a physical war!
The Mahabharata was likewise narrated by a man who was given the "divine sight", by which he could relate what was happening to a blind king. The meaning of "blind" is interesting here, normally, those without sight in the physical world are called blind today, but those without sight on both physical and Other Side were called blind during that time.

A note on dating: It appears that the war took place around 3100 BC... around the same time that the Mayan Calendar count is begun.
LoneBear wrote:I would be curious to know if fulgarites (lightning glass) are common in that area, or if there are any legends of a meteor impact (something falling from the sky, used to make magical weapons).

The legends are of rocks that "arose from the Earth". There are two of them, I will put up the pics of both... both are places of worship, and in a way out of bounds to taking chunks off of them.
HanumanStone.jpg
The stone has been painted over in orange...
HanumanStone.jpg (61.49 KiB) Viewed 3823 times
SitaStone.jpg
A smaller stone... but VERY heavy.
SitaStone.jpg (59.48 KiB) Viewed 3823 times
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Krita Flood

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Surya Siddhanta, #18 wrote:... the whole number of the years of the Krita, is called its SANDHI; and it is the time when a universal deluge happens.
I was wondering if this is an accurate statement, as I seem to find two flood references, one at the end of the Krita (which corresponds to Maya, Babylon and Hebrew accounts of a similar, global flood) and one in the Kali yuga, which Indian researchers tend to associate with the Biblical flood.

I have not been able to find much information on the Internet concerning the Krita flood. (Probably because I'm searching in English and am only picking up translations.)

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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by Gopi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:21 am

The translation is correct, based on what I know Sanskrit. It is indeed a water deluge being spoken of.
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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by LoneBear » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Gopi wrote:The translation is correct, based on what I know Sanskrit. It is indeed a water deluge being spoken of.
Would the original Sanskrit context be "Universal" (Everywhere) or "Global" (Earth only)?

Been running across some peculiar references to "celestial water", and references to Mars having oceans. It is as though a cluster of icy comets passed through the solar system and dropped a lot of salt water on a number of planets, including Earth, Mars, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

The #1 question I've seen regarding the Biblical flood was, "where did all the water come from?" Well, it might be that some icy comets got trapped by the Earth's gravity, "burned up" in the atmosphere, and released quite a torrent of water down on the planet. Based on topology data, the oceans are about 600' higher than they should be, based on submerged coastal outlines. That much water might explain "continents sinking"--rather than going down, the water rose.

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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by Gopi » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:43 am

LoneBear wrote:Would the original Sanskrit context be "Universal" (Everywhere) or "Global" (Earth only)?
It is speaking of the end of one Manvantara, so that would be under one Manu, hence for this Logos.
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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by LoneBear » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:02 pm

LoneBear wrote:The #1 question I've seen regarding the Biblical flood was, "where did all the water come from?" Well, it might be that some icy comets got trapped by the Earth's gravity, "burned up" in the atmosphere, and released quite a torrent of water down on the planet. Based on topology data, the oceans are about 600' higher than they should be, based on submerged coastal outlines. That much water might explain "continents sinking"--rather than going down, the water rose.
I had a dream about this last night, where apparently the Earth was bombarded with comets--on purpose! Icy comets were selected and aimed at the Earth, for the purpose of introducing a large quantity of water on the surface. Velikovsky thought it was just an accident. Now I have to wonder if the Earth was a big, terraforming project.

As mentioned elsewhere on this forum, the Earth is full of impact craters, with most of the larger ones containing large, fresh-water lakes now. Curious.

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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by lvx08 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:14 am

LoneBear wrote: Been running across some peculiar references to "celestial water", and references to Mars having oceans. It is as though a cluster of icy comets passed through the solar system and dropped a lot of salt water on a number of planets, including Earth, Mars, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

The #1 question I've seen regarding the Biblical flood was, "where did all the water come from?" Well, it might be that some icy comets got trapped by the Earth's gravity, "burned up" in the atmosphere, and released quite a torrent of water down on the planet. Based on topology data, the oceans are about 600' higher than they should be, based on submerged coastal outlines. That much water might explain "continents sinking"--rather than going down, the water rose.
This guy has an interesting youtube channel. Always some great videos of what the sun is currently doing

see

STARWATER - A Look at Our Changing Planet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiC-92Yg ... ature=plcp

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Re: Vajra and Astra

Post by LoneBear » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:59 am

lvx08 wrote:This guy has an interesting youtube channel. Always some great videos of what the sun is currently doing

STARWATER - A Look at Our Changing Planet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiC-92Yg ... ature=plcp
Got some interesting summaries of research. I'll go through the videos in detail.

I've been converting the astronomical research papers of Dewey Larson and KVK Nehru to PDF/a files, and am putting them out on the RStheory website, here: http://library.rstheory.org/pdf/astronomy.

With Larson's correction of the stellar evolutionary sequence, and Nehru's insights into sunspots and the production of elements, one can make sense out of many of these peculiar goings-on these days.

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