The World Vision

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
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The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:34 am

I would like to know the purpose of transfering the knowledge and abilities held in our energy form to our physical form and what the result will be when it is achieved? Also humans are reproducing fast so are we expanding in the afterlife or are we each a collective of beings limited in number that, lets say sow many seeds of the same plant in more beings to have more chance the plant will grow to achieve what we need to? we were living lives centurys ago when population was miniscule so is it now we have many vessels to choose from to use and the unchosen remain empty and blind? Or do we reproduce in our energy form? If a new energy were to start now on earth, surely the energy here from long ago would be much more enlightened?

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Tulan » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:29 pm

I would like to know the purpose of transfering the knowledge and abilities held in our energy form to our physical form and what the result will be when it is achieved?
Delineation is a human concept, it's what we use to quantify many aspects of our physical experience; evolution is constant, the consistent 'wiggling' between dual states is what we experience in 3rd density. You are the result of transfer between non-physical form and present physical intention.

By 'new' energy I assume you mean 'new configuration'.
Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Starlight* » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:38 pm

Hi oldnum7,
oldnum7 wrote: I would like to know the purpose of transfering the knowledge and abilities held in our energy form to our physical form and what the result will be when it is achieved? Also humans are reproducing fast so are we expanding in the afterlife or are we each a collective of beings limited in number that, lets say sow many seeds of the same plant in more beings to have more chance the plant will grow to achieve what we need to?

As Tulan, and ever expanding...

The universe is in constant motion, ever changing. Being part of the cosmic family, it is possible for one, because of freewill, to become stagnant or stale. The stagnated energy builds up within one's existence, causing pressure. The universe encourages, and if allowed, pushes one to make choices according to the experiences one has accumulated in distance past, and current for future possibilities. Looking into the past to regain those tools that will and have aided one in the process toward the progressive motion within the universe.
oldum7 wrote:we were living lives centurys ago when population was miniscule so is it now we have many vessels to choose from to use and the unchosen remain empty and blind? Or do we reproduce in our energy form? If a new energy were to start now on earth, surely the energy here from long ago would be much more enlightened?
In light, without the heavy load of our past, we become light.

It's good to meet you, oldnum7. :) Welcome to Antiquatis.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Gopi » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:46 pm

Welcome, Oldnum7!
oldnum7 wrote:I would like to know the purpose of transfering the knowledge and abilities held in our energy form to our physical form and what the result will be when it is achieved?
What you call the "energy body" is referred to in these forums as Astral body, and transferring them is the same as, in Jung's terminology, accessing the Archetypes.

For example, when one accesses the anima, one the feminine side, the Muses lend their aid to the abilities. Left to themselves, they would only contribute in keeping the energy body alive. But when you pay conscious attention (thought transfer) they'd help the energy body grow and filter through its effects in any art form of expression, which can then be used to develop yourself.

In a sense this is like tennis... you toss thoughts into the other side (energy body) over the net (the veil of forgetting) and then you receive the response in terms of symbolic language which you then take a shot at. And if things go well, BOTH win, as both are the two sides of you. With practice, you can cross that net better, and maybe even hop over it in glee to have a chat with the other player from time to time. Doing this is the same as what the ancients called "opening the third eye".
oldnum7 wrote:Also humans are reproducing fast so are we expanding in the afterlife or are we each a collective of beings limited in number that, lets say sow many seeds of the same plant in more beings to have more chance the plant will grow to achieve what we need to?
There are three "sources" for the third density human souls. Those who have been human for quite a while are the first. Those who come up from lower kingdoms, like plant and animal, form another. And those coming from higher levels, form the third. Recently a number of things are going on behind the scenes, because of which the population has swung up, due to input from all the three.

Individuality is important, so unless some entities have specifically chosen the path of splitting themselves up to experience life better, it is generally a single seed per single being.
oldnum7 wrote:Or do we reproduce in our energy form? If a new energy were to start now on earth, surely the energy here from long ago would be much more enlightened?
It is the energy body and the physical together which create life, as it is important for the physical to be linked with the cosmic (astral) to generate life. If only in the energy body, you would have lots of "energy exchanges" as Ra called it, but not much sex! :)

As to the enlightenment, that is one of the funny things observed in the case of the study of veiling: People were indeed more enlightened, or having more Wisdom. This comes side by side with the kind of senses they were using to perceive the world, and also the kind of intellect they used to process that data. They also were better in touch with their instincts and emotions, so knowledge kind of "flowed" through them. Can you imagine setting up a system of plant remedies today like the different ancient herbal traditions? It would take centuries, and still be a mess. The ancient traditions were written down with that instinctive eye, and not trial and error as currently presumed.

The catch is, all the love and the light in the world is not enough if the individual doesn't use it. Hence, wisdom transmogrifies into more of "logic" and instinct into "feeling". Not as powerful, no, nor as deep, but far sharper and more penetrative. That is the direction of evolution.
It is time.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:11 am

Thank you all for the warm welcome,

Thanks Gobi I found your post informative and was explained well. I appreciate your posts Tulan and Starlight, the termonoligy is very technical to me however.

Im still drawn to the idea that there is more to it than just evolving and evolving. So is this example on the right track: lets say the 4th density is astral, if the physical body evolves to the 4th density then at the same time the astral will evolve to the 5th?

What is the density of our astral bodys?

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Tulan » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:53 am

Im still drawn to the idea that there is more to it than just evolving and evolving.
Isn't that, on a small scale, evolution? Ideas, creativity, diversity, and expansion are all forms of evolution - they are always born from the void. In your present state you recognize that you want clarity on a certain topic(s), clarity as in - more knowledge; what might you call that? Maturity? Evolution? Personal Development?

Everything we think and do is expansion!
Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Arcelius » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:42 pm

oldnum7 wrote:the termonoligy is very technical to me however.
Yes, it does tend to be. There is a library section to the site that contains some information/books that people have read. As well, many people will have read the Law of One series published by http://llresearch.org (their site also has a library). If you have some specific questions on the terminology, feel free to ask.
oldnum7 wrote:What is the density of our astral bodys?
I would say 3rd density to go along with your 3rd density physical body. Actually, there is more to the physical body than what looks back at you from the mirror in the morning. The Law of One might say that you are a Mind/Body/Spirit complex experiencing 3rd density.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:28 pm

Evolving to evolve fits in fine with the physical but in the astral it creates questions in me. Spirits that have crossed over say they are happy to be home. Why would we choose to come back and endure the physical unless evolution was of much importance to the astral? So much importance that there is more to it than evolving, I say that because we are all individual and of free will, to have us all repeatidly returning to ensure the evolution creates a common goal, however I'm not sure if we can choose to return or not. We have all the knowledge in the astral, why not bask in the love of the universe. I can see myself snowboarding space dust right now, but i'm here to endure the physical.
Evolve to evolve? would that mean we would evolve beyond the creator?

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Re: The World Vision

Post by LoneBear » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:51 pm

gopi wrote:There are three "sources" for the third density human souls. Those who have been human for quite a while are the first. Those who come up from lower kingdoms, like plant and animal, form another. And those coming from higher levels, form the third. Recently a number of things are going on behind the scenes, because of which the population has swung up, due to input from all the three.
There are a few more...

The "transplants", souls brought here from other worlds that can no longer support the development of a physical form necessary for the continued evolution of their consciousness.

Those exiting the "web of fear" (social memory complex) from a destroyed world incarnate and become human souls.

Those from parallel evolutionary species, such as cetaceans or the Seelie Court.

Those from "higher realms" don't usually stay and enter the reincarnation cycle; they leave with the tour group, unless they were, shall we say, "cast out"... homo errans.
oldnum7 wrote:Evolving to evolve fits in fine with the physical but in the astral it creates questions in me. Spirits that have crossed over say they are happy to be home.
That rather depends on the spirit you talk to...! Most of them never even realize they have died, since they duplicate--in thought form--the physical world.
oldnum7 wrote:Why would we choose to come back and endure the physical unless evolution was of much importance to the astral?
Nehru, an elderly friend of Gopi and I, doesn't consider the astral to be the afterlife, but one of the three outpourings of the solar Logos. When people astral project, they don't see dead people--they see the living realm. In that respect, the astral is more like "Hyperspace" -- but still space. I refer to it as the "other realm", of which there are 3 levels. Two are commonly understood in Theosophy as the "soul world" and "spirit world".

Learning and evolution take place in both realms. Here, due to the radical mix of situations, the catalyst is substantially higher so you can learn a great deal in a very short period. We're in a pressure cooker--the other side is a campfire. They both cook a meal, but you'll get a lot more, faster, using the pressure cooker than roasting the marshmallow on the other side. "Importance" doesn't apply to the realm, it applies to the individual experiencing it.
oldnum7 wrote:So much importance that there is more to it than evolving, I say that because we are all individual and of free will, to have us all repeatidly returning to ensure the evolution creates a common goal, however I'm not sure if we can choose to return or not.
The laws are different in the other realm as compared to here. In the material realm, we calculate distance by spatial geometry. In the other realm, that same concept is represented by values... the more attached we are to something, the closer it is (analogous to the vMemes discussed here). Once people have worked out their "values" (paid for their "sins", balanced "karma", et al), there is not much else to do, so they reincarnate in the flesh and work up a whole new set of biased values. Our values change as we evolve, becoming more "ethical" with each incarnation. It is just a way of working things out, to see a continually larger picture of the Universe.
oldnum7 wrote:We have all the knowledge in the astral, why not bask in the love of the universe.
Common misunderstanding... most people become more ignorant after they die! Since the other realm is based on values, the things you retain tend to be the emotional issues--things you love or hate, and most intellectual pursuits are "value-free" in that respect, so you don't remember them.

There are procedures to retain the intellect when you cross over, which are derived from Chinese studies of qi (shen, in particular), and processes like Alchemy. The concept is to build a type of "brain battery" that continues to power the intellect--and associated memories--in a different environment.

This moves into the discussion of Kheb elsewhere on the forum--the "3rd way" that allows you to keep everything you have developed in both realms.
oldnum7 wrote:I can see myself snowboarding space dust right now, but i'm here to endure the physical.
I hear Europa has some of the best snowboarding this side of Alpha Centauri. And at 1/6th Gravity, you can do some awesome acrobatics.
oldnum7 wrote:Evolve to evolve? would that mean we would evolve beyond the creator?
Have you evolved beyond your parents? Would they be happy if you did?

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:14 am

That rather depends on the spirit you talk to...! Most of them never even realize they have died, since they duplicate--in thought form--the physical world.
I think I need to have a few things defined better. when you say duplicte, are you saying our energy in the astral stays their and creates a duplicate self to reside in the physical?
Nehru, an elderly friend of Gopi and I, doesn't consider the astral to be the afterlife, but one of the three outpourings of the solar Logos. When people astral project, they don't see dead people--they see the living realm. In that respect, the astral is more like "Hyperspace" -- but still space. I refer to it as the "other realm", of which there are 3 levels. Two are commonly understood in Theosophy as the "soul world" and "spirit world".
Could that be what is reffered to as the heaven inside heavens?
"Importance" doesn't apply to the realm, it applies to the individual experiencing it.
I understand.
Common misunderstanding... most people become more ignorant after they die! Since the other realm is based on values, the things you retain tend to be the emotional issues--things you love or hate, and most intellectual pursuits are "value-free" in that respect, so you don't remember them.


ok, I always held the impression that in the other realm, we had the knowledge of the universe and had the ability to journey throughout.
I hear Europa has some of the best snowboarding this side of Alpha Centauri. And at 1/6th Gravity, you can do some awesome acrobatics.
Good idea, while I wait for the rocket, I'l work on astral teleporting to get back... or further beyond!!
Have you evolved beyond your parents? Would they be happy if you did?


Excellent example!

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Tulan » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:12 am

when you say duplicte, are you saying our energy in the astral stays their and creates a duplicate self to reside in the physical?
In the context of what LB is saying, think virtual reality - a 'duplicate' of the physical sector, an accurate duplicate in thought form. The physical is only an illusion, it is straight-forward to duplicate and mold. The essence of the physical is another story, RS/RS2 is an effort to quantify and understand those fundamentals.

(Side note, I just re-read what I wrote and the end word 'fundamentals' - caught my eye, it sounded like I was saying elementals. I suppose 'fundamentals' are -parent- sentient beings - difficult to describe it, but thought I would mention my thought)
...we had the knowledge of the universe and had the ability to journey throughout.
What would your line of thinking be if you progressed from the premise: all is one?
Good idea, while I wait for the rocket...
Rockets aren't as scary as they seem - a fun ride, actually - hop on already :wink:

You may find, however, it isn't exactly what you think it's going to be - the physical isn't some disease or condition to escape from. It's a place to play, explore, and expand (evolve) ride the rocket of life!

I love snowboarding, btw. Climbing a mountain and boarding down it - sifting through the silence on fresh fluffy powder, nothing like it :D
Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Gopi » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:52 pm

oldnum7 wrote:I think I need to have a few things defined better. when you say duplicte, are you saying our energy in the astral stays their and creates a duplicate self to reside in the physical?
Our energy patterns from the physical actions kind of retain their effect when we move to astral (or when our ego moves there) which immediately manifest in something like the physical reality. So you might live blissfully for ages in a little thought world, because you "move" only from feeling to feeling.
oldnum7 wrote:ok, I always held the impression that in the other realm, we had the knowledge of the universe and had the ability to journey throughout.
Grass is always greener on the other side! :D

Just like saying one "endures" in the physical and "goes back" to the Astral, one may logically say one "endures" the Astral and "comes back" to the physical, from the opposite view. It appears you are more comfortable with the Astral.
It is time.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by LoneBear » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:38 pm

oldnum7 wrote:I think I need to have a few things defined better. when you say duplicte, are you saying our energy in the astral stays their and creates a duplicate self to reside in the physical?
The body contains two kinds of energy, what the Chinese call the yin and yang qi (anima and animus, if you prefer the Latin). Most of the biological systems depend upon the yang aspect of that energy, so when it dies, you lose the yang, and the yin (soul) is what transitions into the other realm. Yin is also the basis of the strong emotions, such as love and hate, so that is what normally survives and forms your "body", with the yang energy external to it--a constructive principle. Your emotions then manipulate the remaining yang energy into something the ego can still recognize--houses, people, buildings--except they are usually just constructs of your own mind. Kind of like living in a subconscious holodeck.

Energy and matter are an illusion in the sense that what you see isn't what is actually there. Easy enough to prove... can you see the television and radio waves running all around you? No. What we experience as "reality" is just a small subset of what is there, compounded by a large number of assumptions to give consciousness a chance to sort things out.

Same thing happens on the other side--you create the illusion of reality from the energy of transition. People can get stuck there for centuries, believing the illusion is reality.

What is "duplicated" are the memories of an existence that made sense to you.

To quote Hilda Spellman, "I hate other people's memories... they always dwell in the past!"
oldnum7 wrote:Could that be what is reffered to as the heaven inside heavens?
Yes, could be. Though many people never get further than the white and black "waves" you experience after you make the transition, which is the generic form of "heaven" and "hell". Many hop into "purgatory" to wait out a decision, only to find themselves being born in a hospital!
oldnum7 wrote:ok, I always held the impression that in the other realm, we had the knowledge of the universe and had the ability to journey throughout.
Well, a lot of people do--but it's all a personal illusion. They never actually go anywhere, they just create the reality that they are.

It's like entering a cave...
Luke: "What's in there?"
Yoda: "Only what you take with you."
oldnum7 wrote:Good idea, while I wait for the rocket, I'l work on astral teleporting to get back... or further beyond!!
Just hop the Starway to the transfer point on Io, and grab a hotel shuttle... be there in no time!

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:41 pm

I see. I am gaining a much clearer picture. Could it be we are evolving in these realms to perhaps open a doorway or merge them togeather? Also, is the current density we reside in, the only place the Ori or other posible threats can atempt their control? Or are they on the same level of us in the Other Realm? Or does every Race of beings have there own Other Realm? Maybe the bible is correct when it says gates of heaven, as this is the security gate to our higher selves.
It appears you are more comfortable with the Astral.
lets say It got dark while I was driving and the headlights blew out, so I lost sight of the road ahead of me, and I pulled over. Thankfully the people here are on the same road and when I waved out, they gave me a torch to so I could see where to fix my lights. Now the road trip is back on!
I just need to interperet the map I have better, sometimes I think I should be at my destination but im not. I have another look at the map and its been updated, the roads have changed.
Luckily I have a full tank and a reliable car to drive. :wink:

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:07 pm

Yes, could be. Though many people never get further than the white and black "waves" you experience after you make the transition, which is the generic form of "heaven" and "hell". Many hop into "purgatory" to wait out a decision, only to find themselves being born in a hospital!
That explains a lot to me, some beings must get stuck in that realm every time after death and wont reach the higher realm, perhaps cause they continually dont become concious preventing their evolution.
Well, a lot of people do--but it's all a personal illusion. They never actually go anywhere, they just create the reality that they are.
I often say to people "You create your own reality". Makes sense.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by LoneBear » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:00 pm

oldnum7 wrote:Could it be we are evolving in these realms to perhaps open a doorway or merge them togeather?
Based on mythological accounts, these realms USED TO BE OPEN! Somebody closed the door--I'll bet we need to find "why", before we'll find the key. It may very well be that present-day Earth is "Pandora's Box" and that door may be better shut!

I should point out that the bulk of the "muggles" are not actually evolving... they are devolving. I can't speak for other countries but here in the USA, the quality of education has dropped significantly in the last 50 years. Cointreau's recent experience with "teaching" (and I use the term lightly) was a shocker--they wouldn't even let him grade papers, because it might upset the child if they failed. And the state of ethics (a good indicator of evolution) is at an all-time low.

And the muggles will do all they can to keep others from advancing past them, lies, ridicule, you name it. They'd rather burn you at the stake, then listen to a new idea.

We have discussed methods used by the Els that get around some of the "problem areas"... what I call "slipstreaming ascension" (based on a Star Trek Voyager episode). We call that path, "Kheb."

Mrs. Wormwood to 6-year-old Calvin: "What State do you live in?"
Calvin: "Denial."
Mrs. Wormwood: "I don't suppose I can argue with that..."
oldnum7 wrote:Also, is the current density we reside in, the only place the Ori or other posible threats can atempt their control?
They control a number of 2nd density worlds... cheap labor from a non-threatening population. They'd love the Earth to go back to 2nd density, and are doing what they can to get that result.
oldnum7 wrote:Or are they on the same level of us in the Other Realm? Or does every Race of beings have there own Other Realm?
The lower other realm has two "waves", people who have good hearts end up in the white wave, where they can introspect and review what they did, and still see the physical world, family and friends. Some can continue to interact, as well.

The Priors of the Ori end up in the black wave, the "Valley of Shadows, where the slain are not slain by the sword." They cannot see the physical realm--nor each other--until they can control the emotional darkness that envelops them. The same laws apply, though... if they move out of the darkness into the Other Realm world, they will certainly create a hellish reality for themselves.

As far as I know, the higher "worlds" of the Other Realm are shared by all sentient species within the Logos.
oldnum7 wrote:Maybe the bible is correct when it says gates of heaven, as this is the security gate to our higher selves.
Actually, if you think about it... "pearls" are large, white spheres in the "heavens"...
Revelations 21:21 wrote:And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the several gates was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Lonebear wrote:Asgard, too, had it's great Halls--12 big ones, and a number of smaller halls for the "less important" gods. Enormous halls with hundreds of "apartments", that could hold hundreds of men--placed in the heavens. Everyone is familiar with the number 12 and the heavens--the zodiac, the 12 trials of Hercules,... many references. Perhaps the halls of Asgard are 12 Arks of the S-Ms, in near-earth orbit.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by LoneBear » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:16 pm

Tulan wrote:(Side note, I just re-read what I wrote and the end word 'fundamentals' - caught my eye, it sounded like I was saying elementals. I suppose 'fundamentals' are -parent- sentient beings - difficult to describe it, but thought I would mention my thought)
Elemental, my dear Watson... fundamentally archetypal.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:34 pm

I should point out that the bulk of the "muggles" are not actually evolving... they are devolving. I can't speak for other countries but here in the USA, the quality of education has dropped significantly in the last 50 years.
I noticed a few weeks ago that it was a beautiful day, school had finished but there were no kids playing on their front lawn nor were kids riding bikes. What you say is happening there LB is happening here. Very few NZer's have political, religious, or war views. Only the generation above me the "baby boomers" involve themselves, as is the ethics, morales, discipline that was held over them. My generation has grown into a society of people (apart from few) with no work ethic, no school ethic, no inner searching, no loyalties, no morales, no goals, no religion, no believing of other realms. Our country is very "Americanised" and we are much different to Australia.
I myself was raised "old school", my mum is like a tough old leather boot. :o
I went on a 2 hire hike not long ago through the Karangahake George and I came across probably 20 tourists along the way and no Kiwis! For a country who claim were hard outdoors men and so proud of our beautiful, unpolluted, anti-nuclear country, it just says things have to change.
So change takes time they reckon, that is so not the case with our current de-evolution!!! So how do we fix this? Lately if I hear or involved in conversation I will merely make an comment of my AWARE view of things and have been getting told i'm trying to push it upon them!
How does it need to be approached? for arent we ment to share our knowledge and help people towards enlightenment.
I have few friends these days and antiquatis is the only place I have in my life to be among people of similar thought.-thank you all!!!

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Gopi » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:37 pm

oldnum7 wrote:Lately if I hear or involved in conversation I will merely make an comment of my AWARE view of things and have been getting told i'm trying to push it upon them!
Humor and subtlety are great instruments... lemme just share what happened a week back here at college.

A bunch of us friends had gone out on a treat to a mall, and not getting any immediate transport, were walking back. On the way we spotted an old style horse carriage, with good strong horses... used for a marriage procession. I commented that they looked much better than the poor horses which they used for chariots in the epic mythology shows, which immediately led to discussion about the mythologies. Being engineering students, it was fun to just drop in with "Hey, let's make a sci-fi type of mythology!" and drop snippets of actual stuff in those speculations... sure enough, one of them really opened up after that, especially as we were laughing all the while imagining venerable old kings with lightsabers.

I take it you are familiar with vMemes? It is important to take care not to be a "recruiter" of Tier 1 (quantity of people), but an "advancer" of Tier 2 (quality of people). Tier 1 meddling will earn you the name of a blasphemer within a flash!
It is time.

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Re: The World Vision

Post by Starlight* » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:57 pm

Tulan wrote:(Side note, I just re-read what I wrote and the end word 'fundamentals' - caught my eye, it sounded like I was saying elementals. I suppose 'fundamentals' are -parent- sentient beings - difficult to describe it, but thought I would mention my thought)
Elemental, my dear Watson... fundamentally archetypal.
Creative indeed. ;)

Fun-da-mentally archetypal (deities). Using the archetype to rise above it. As I would prefer not to be possessed by them. ;)

El e-mental, sure, it is part of it.


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Amhlaibh
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Re: The World Vision

Post by Amhlaibh » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:11 am

I take it you are familiar with vMemes?
No, is it a book? :?:
I have only ever read a few books, I have basic knowledge that Ive picked up on. Just feels like common sense.

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Tulan
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Re: The World Vision

Post by Tulan » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:08 am

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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LoneBear
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Re: The World Vision

Post by LoneBear » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:23 pm

oldnum7 wrote:My generation has grown into a society of people (apart from few) with no work ethic, no school ethic, no inner searching, no loyalties, no morales, no goals, no religion, no believing of other realms. Our country is very "Americanised" and we are much different to Australia.
And I was hoping NZ might have been a "diamond in the rough"... looks like it is on the same path as the rest of "civilization".

I have found that it isn't a failure of the kids to HAVE these qualities, because they WANT to learn them--but they simply AREN'T BEING TAUGHT. As Cointreau found out trying to teach in Denver, the curriculum these days is nothing but political correctness, and how to say, "do you want fries with that SIR?" Anything concerning HOW to make ethical or moral decisions is banned--just "do what you are told."

I've also found that given the chance, young kids are very willing to learn. But once they hit those teenage years and are out to rebel against the established order--there isn't anything to rebel against, so they do tend to go to extremes.
oldnum7 wrote:I myself was raised "old school", my mum is like a tough old leather boot. :o
Me too... days of corporal punishment, which I believe is illegal here now.
oldnum7 wrote:I went on a 2 hire hike not long ago through the Karangahake George and I came across probably 20 tourists along the way and no Kiwis! For a country who claim were hard outdoors men and so proud of our beautiful, unpolluted, anti-nuclear country, it just says things have to change.
That's not good to hear... when animals move out, there's usually a serious reason.
oldnum7 wrote:So change takes time they reckon, that is so not the case with our current de-evolution!!! So how do we fix this? Lately if I hear or involved in conversation I will merely make an comment of my AWARE view of things and have been getting told i'm trying to push it upon them!
How does it need to be approached? for arent we ment to share our knowledge and help people towards enlightenment.
Back in the farmland where I grew up, there was a saying, "You CAN teach a pig to sing, but it's a lot of work--and annoys the pig."

As Gopi mentioned, people use different "valuing" systems, referred to as "valuing memes" or "vMemes". There are two "tiers" to them... People in a Tier 1 valuing cannot see any other points of view--they are right, and everyone else is wrong. Tribal, religions, corporations, scientists, and New Agers all fall into Tier 1. Tier 2 are people that have usually had an encounter with the paranormal and have "widened" their perspective to include many points of view--in other words, you have made the transition between "why you CAN'T" to "how you CAN".

Tier 2 was actually TAUGHT in my day, through a simple story by Watty Piper, called, "The Little Engine that Could".

My approach to "fixing this" is the policy I've maintained on this site for years... I don't recruit people. If you are meant to find Antiquatis, you'll find it. We are "word of mouth". I believe in the free expression of knowledge, ideas and experience, but not "leaving the barn door open". Some people aren't ready for certain ideas, and will grossly misinterpret the intents. That is a disservice to all involved. There are a number of these "doors" on this site that open under certain conditions, as you'll soon discover.

My concept is that I'm happy to share what I've learned on my journey through life. Sharing knowledge and experience is how we learn and can avoid repeating mistakes. But NO evangelizing, recruiting or conversion... Tier 2 understands that there are many ways to view everything, and the more views you have of something, the easier it is to finally identify. But I do enforce the "intolerance of intolerance" rule, and the "prime directive" of respecting the privacy of another--which includes forcing yourself or your views upon another person. Your life is YOURS to relate, as you see fit--not someone elses.
oldnum7 wrote:I have few friends these days and antiquatis is the only place I have in my life to be among people of similar thought.-thank you all!!!
Glad to have you here!

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Gopi
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Re: The World Vision

Post by Gopi » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:28 am

oldnum7 wrote:I came across probably 20 tourists along the way and no Kiwis!
I think you're talking about the native NZer's, right? I remember them being called Kiwis in the cricket matches with India...
oldnum7 wrote:I have few friends these days and antiquatis is the only place I have in my life to be among people of similar thought.-thank you all!!!
Mirrors my own feelings on the matter when I came to this place... Looking forward to see you post.
It is time.

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Tulan
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Re: The World Vision

Post by Tulan » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:10 pm

Lately if I hear or involved in conversation I will merely make an comment of my AWARE view of things and have been getting told i'm trying to push it upon them!
How does it need to be approached? for arent we ment to share our knowledge and help people towards enlightenment.
People are rarely interested in hearing your view of things - I make a point to only ever give knowledge when asked. Often times, other complexes within a person's psyche will request through indirect or subtle queues; it is then that I apply humor and metaphor to share knowledge or experience. Don't forget too, servicing everyone's requests is an impossible task - selectivity isn't a bad thing.

This path does tend to be a slightly lonely one - you have to get used to being alone, or, atleast putting up a persona for the vast majority of people you interact with.
Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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