Paradise or oblivion

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
Post Reply
User avatar
Raytrek
Cognitor
Cognitor
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:44 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Paradise or oblivion

Post by Raytrek » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:58 pm

I thought you may be interested in looking into this http://www.thevenusproject.com/

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Paradise or oblivion

Post by LoneBear » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:42 am

The Venus Project has been around for a long time... I remember doing a report on it in High School.

I'm all for a resource-based economy and the elimination of money, power and greed from money-based economies. I also support the ideas of individual self-achievement and working towards higher goals. But the obvious problem is that one cannot build a resource-based economy when the current economy controls and restricts access to world resources.

One of the larger problems, which Gopi pointed out to me after his trip back to India, is that a good chunk of the world population is not interested in technological solutions to things. They don't want to terraform the environment--they want to live in the existing one.

Fresco speaks of providing housing for all. Well... over in South Dakota, a group of people did that for the Native Americans there, now living in poverty. Built dozens of nice homes, complete with appliances, carpeting and the works. 6 months later, they got a surprise to find the homes trashed by the owners. They didn't need the appliances, so they ripped them out and sold them. They had knocked the walls out of the bathrooms so the horses could drink out of the bathtubs. What it comes down to is that Fresco has a specific, cultural view of a resource-based economy that even if implemented globally, may just create new problems.

Fresco is definitely a Tier 2 thinker with a lot of great ideas, but it seems impractical. I believe that the solution to a better world lies with each person; to build a healthy spirit, then the ethics and behavior follow, and social improvements would result that are custom tailored to the culture and environment.

User avatar
Raytrek
Cognitor
Cognitor
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:44 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Paradise or oblivion

Post by Raytrek » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:19 am

Do you believe his prediction that there will inevidably be a collapse of this system due to its own failings, when the oil runs out? How much of this civilization depends on oil? Can we produce enough alternatives, within the time of it running out, to avoid such a collapse?
I have heard it said that it is likely that oil nations are exagerating their reserves. This sounds odd to me because wouldn't they get more money for their oil if it were scarcer?

I like the idea of the personal growth of each of us as a resolve to world problems, but unfortunately, as your friend said, most people do not want to change, different topic but the same additude they have probably still applies. That is their choice, advice on personal growth is easy enough to find these days, if they want it.

I came up with my ideal of freedom, it is probably common "With the optimization of our own personal choice we would have to consider the choices of others, that if they are directly negatively impacted or there is the possibility of directly impacting their choice on any issue, then it would require consent on their part before action" But of course this fails on emergency situations where instant action is needed.

Have you heard of the computer code embeded within string theory equations? Is that for real?

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Paradise or oblivion

Post by LoneBear » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:50 am

Raytrek wrote:Do you believe his prediction that there will inevidably be a collapse of this system due to its own failings, when the oil runs out? How much of this civilization depends on oil?
I think everyone is HOPING the system will collapse because governments don't even TRY to hide the massive fraud they perpetrate on people these days. That's where a lot of the 2012 stuff comes in--the system has gotten so top-heavy that it is crushing all those supporting it.

Regarding oil, it will NEVER run out. Again, that's all fraud to increase profits. The belief that oil comes from dead dinosaurs and million-year-old plants is a lot of nonsense. When I examined oil production in light of RS2 geophysics, I found that oil is a waste product of a specific kind of bacteria that lives in extremely hot temperatures (which was discovered in the magma after the Mount St. Helen's eruption in the US). The asthenosphere (the layer separating the crust from the mantle) is so "oily" is because the top layers of it ARE oil, which floats to the surface and collects in pockets at the base of the crust. These rupture to form the oil fields. If you never noticed, the biggest oil fields are next to the largest volcanoes, where the crust is heavily cracked to the asthenosphere. Conclusion is that oil is nothing more that "bacteria poop," and is being constantly manufactured beneath the surface. That whole Horizon deep water drilling incident was their attempt to drill directly into the asthenosphere at thin point in the crust, so they could tap the unlimited amount of oil there. Unfortunately, the asthenosphere is under a lot of pressure, which resulted in the accident and massive destruction of the ocean floor that followed.

So they aren't going to run out of oil any time soon. But they will continue to destroy the atmosphere in the northern hemisphere (the prevailing winds tend to isolate the northern and southern hemispheres). We're seeing it already. We had 82F here in Wyoming in MARCH! Normally it is snowing through May. On a clear day, the sun is so intense (because it is so dry here) that it feels like you are in a microwave oven.

So, how's Australia for a place to live?
Raytrek wrote:Can we produce enough alternatives, within the time of it running out, to avoid such a collapse?
If you are speaking about alternatives to promote consciousness, then I don't have an answer for that. But I am beginning to doubt it.
Raytrek wrote:I have heard it said that it is likely that oil nations are exagerating their reserves. This sounds odd to me because wouldn't they get more money for their oil if it were scarcer?
Of course. There was a big oil shortage back in the 1970s. I lived just outside of a town that took in oil tankers from a river and had a storage facility at the docs. During that shortage, EVERY ONE of those storage tanks was full to the top, and they were turning away tankers. Everyone in town knew it was just a con job. All they did was to limit distribution to fake a shortage. There has always been plenty of oil.

The same situation is true with diamonds. There are warehouses in south Africa that contain untold thousands of crates of raw diamonds--by faking scarcity, you get ridiculous prices.

About the only things that are truly scarce these days are fresh water, clean air and organic food.
Raytrek wrote:I like the idea of the personal growth of each of us as a resolve to world problems, but unfortunately, as your friend said, most people do not want to change, different topic but the same additude they have probably still applies. That is their choice, advice on personal growth is easy enough to find these days, if they want it.
I grew up with the "new age" movement and I can tell you this... GOOD advice is rare to find. Quite honestly, from what I've seen first hand, I would conclude that "personal growth" has DECLINED in the last 50 years, moving from a true, internal ethics to a superficial persona.

Back in the 1960s, television used to educate. Doctor Who, for example, was created to teach children about history. I watched Doctor Who for decades... until this year, as it has now become more "horror" than Sci-Fi. The shows are either some nightmare or explosions. Nothing that requires any thought, as did the old episodes.

The change that stood out the strongest for me was actually "Lost in Space", the original series compared to the movie. Shows a lot where family values--and the personal ethics they taught--have gone.
Raytrek wrote:I came up with my ideal of freedom, it is probably common "With the optimization of our own personal choice we would have to consider the choices of others, that if they are directly negatively impacted or there is the possibility of directly impacting their choice on any issue, then it would require consent on their part before action" But of course this fails on emergency situations where instant action is needed.
That is the core of ethics. It is interesting now that you mention it, as there appears to be a correlation between ethical behavior and freedom. Those with an ethical consciousness do not require laws to govern their behavior, as they will inherently do "the right thing." A lack of ethics requires laws and punishment to enforce behavioral standards.

When ethics are developed to the point of instinct, then it needs not be abandoned during an emergency.
Raytrek wrote:Have you heard of the computer code embeded within string theory equations? Is that for real?
I found a video on it here: 2011 Isaac Asimov Conference
The guy talking about it appears to have run across the same thing I found in the spiritual archetypes (see: Hidden Messages), and trying to interpret in superstring theory. So it seems that anyone who honestly tries to uncover the basic truths of the Universe will find it, no matter the path.

User avatar
Raytrek
Cognitor
Cognitor
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:44 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Paradise or oblivion

Post by Raytrek » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:54 pm

The fact that the images he is talking about, that are representations of the equations of super string theory, were likely created by feeding the equations into a computer in the first place, poses explainations. The fact that a computer tech back in the 1940′s discovered the most efficient code to be used to order computers could simply mean that he accidentally came across a naturally occuring obvious fact about the universe. To be suprised about this is basically saying that it is strange that it turns out that the universe is more like science than we were led to believe.


This is off topic but I was talking about evolution and I brought up a point about sleep. Obviously we are in a more vulnerable state in sleep and all animals, that I know of, do it. Do you have any explainations as to why evolution did not phase this feature out, with alternatives or enhancing the "recharge" things about animal life to the point it becomes un-nessecary? Even an explaination as to why it began as a standard feature in the first place?

User avatar
Arcelius
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:35 pm
Location: Atlantic Canada

Re: Paradise or oblivion

Post by Arcelius » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:12 am

Raytrek wrote:This is off topic but I was talking about evolution and I brought up a point about sleep. Obviously we are in a more vulnerable state in sleep and all animals, that I know of, do it. Do you have any explanations as to why evolution did not phase this feature out, with alternatives or enhancing the "recharge" things about animal life to the point it becomes un-necessary? Even an explanation as to why it began as a standard feature in the first place?
We may be in a more vulnerable state from a physical perspective during sleep. However, we are much more vulnerable when aware from the dream perspective. Which is the "real" world? Today, most people view the physical reality to be real and anything else to be un-real. However, in the past, such wasn't the case. Some have traced the lower life expectancies (i.e. from 900 years in the Ra Material to today's 70 years or less) due to the lack of emphasis on the dreamworld. It is my understanding that the dicotomy between the waking and sleep/dream worlds is part of the 3rd density experience in order to help us make the choice. It is not about vulnerability versus invulnerability but about evolution of consciousness. The dreamworld is just as real as the waking one and just as fundamental to who we are (check out the results from sleep deprivation experiments).

Back to the original point of the thread, here is a link to another organization looking to change things: https://www.thrivemovement.com/home. They differ from Fresco in a few ways such as a lesser emphasis on science and more emphasis on people. However, they still maintain a very materialistic worldview.

User avatar
daniel
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: P3X-774

Re: Paradise or oblivion

Post by daniel » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:45 pm

I read some of the information on the Venus project; it fails to consider the conjugate (cosmic, 3D time) realm that is called the "Other Realm" here. The proposed intense use of electromagnetism will have its toll there.

The idea of a reduction of pollution and toxins is good, but it needs a holistic approach, to consider the bioenergetic realms as well. Machines are nice, but they are inanimate. Using machines to replace human labor would therefore result in a net decrease in bioenergy. Nature should be understood and copied, not ignored and defeated.
Don't ever trust the people that claim the right to rule you. --Larken Rose

Post Reply