December 21, 2012

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
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LoneBear
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December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:09 am

We're down to a week, and counting.

I was just wondering if anyone feels anything different?

From what I see in town, it's just the normal, hectic, Christmas season... though sales seem to be way down this year, probably from the lack of money here due to the wildfires and 2-year drought.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by aurora » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:04 pm

There is definitely the usual hectic rush before the end of the year at the doctors office with the rush to get in after deductibles are met. Other than that I have been in a cleaning mode. Wanting to clear my space and free up stagnant energy in my house or lighten my load so to speak, does that count? Is it possible to be tired and feel energetic?

I also noticed the men in town must be feeling lonely. I have been getting calls to go dancing and out for dinner more so than usual. Maybe that is just the season too.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:49 am

I actually feel a bit misled. Again.
I know I shouldn't have fallen for it.
I was just re reading some of Wilcox's writings in Convergence 2000 and other stuff where he with so much fanfare and references makes a case for stuff like changes of earth structure- platonic ley line changes etc. I bought the whole thing for most of the last 13 years.
And here we sit, and if one pulls their attention away from the new age etc nutters etc-
The world seems to keep spinning at about the same rate.

As you may have noticed- I drop by here to lurk fairly often to see what is going through your minds.
I will spend the day meditating and reflecting I'm sure. Mostly on how it is just once again about just being centered in the moment the best i can, and as just a tiny drop in the big ocean, I am just along for the ride.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:05 pm

I also noticed the men in town must be feeling lonely. I have been getting calls to go dancing and out for dinner more so than usual.
Hey, I thought this was the time of women's liberation... shouldn't you be calling up the guys and taking them out to dinner and dancing??? :D

I don't know if this is just coincidence or not, but I've been getting some rather severe headaches since Sunday. Curious thing about it, is that they are occurring with some rather interesting spiritual insights. My recent research has been into the origins of religious belief, and I have found a consistent pattern that appears to in all religious systems. Not a pattern many people like, mind you! But it has allowed me to remove the "false gods" from my personal, spiritual beliefs and to take a close look at the little that remains, that cannot be explained by that religious pattern. And that's the really interesting bit because it does not actually concern gods, angels demons or the like, but a very direct form of consciousness; by that I do not mean "intelligence," but an awareness that I would not call a "god" but an "organic consciousness", for lack of a better term. A type of consciousness of life, itself.

Anyway, it's making my mind spin... don't know if that is related to Dec 21st or not, but it is most interesting.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:21 pm

Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:I actually feel a bit misled. Again.
I know I shouldn't have fallen for it.
Saturday, December 22, should be an interesting day.

There is still a good chance something will happen, or what would be the point of all this 2012 hysteria that could not be taken advantage of by government, religions, or at least sales and marketing departments? The real questions is, "Is it real, or is it Memorex?"
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:I was just re reading some of Wilcox's writings in Convergence 2000 and other stuff where he with so much fanfare and references makes a case for stuff like changes of earth structure- platonic ley line changes etc. I bought the whole thing for most of the last 13 years.
And here we sit, and if one pulls their attention away from the new age etc nutters etc-
The world seems to keep spinning at about the same rate.
I also noticed the world is still spinning, but not sure it is at the same rate. The sun isn't rising and setting in the right spot for this time of year. Yet, the pole star is still where is supposed to be. It is almost like the crust of the Earth has shifted a bit... which might be possible, given the recent megaquakes and storms about the globe.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:I will spend the day meditating and reflecting I'm sure. Mostly on how it is just once again about just being centered in the moment the best i can, and as just a tiny drop in the big ocean, I am just along for the ride.
I'm going to spend the day watching some old movies, just to keep me in a good mood for the time of year.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:47 pm

This video was recommended by a friend, saying George is talking about many of the same things I do with regards to the connection with the Earth and personal development coming from the inside, rather than being handed down from the gods on the outside. Only 12 minutes, and is an interesting perspective of Friday:


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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:44 pm

I kind of agree- but he lumps everything as being external. Seems like he sees no difference in learning a method to be internal and connected with your self, and external rituals.
I see a complete difference.
So just sitting and basking in one's own glow is the way to go.
But seems like others have tried to do this, and found ways that help.
How is that giving your power away?

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:43 am

What I like about his ideas can be summarized as:
  1. Organic versus Synthetic bioenergy (what he is calling "light").
  2. "To be authentic" and move away from limiting paradigms.
The biggest reason I've studied the Reciprocal System for over 20 years is that it provides a much simpler structure to the Universe than any other theory out there--it has removed many limiting paradigms for me that were imposed by the conventional sciences. Intervention theory is doing the same thing for mythology and religion; conventional religion is not much different than conventional science--both "rat's nest" understandings that can be easily simplified and understood, once the socially-imposed limits are removed.

I really like the term, "organic bioenergy," as it states the energy is being produced by an organism and is different in character than bioenergy produced by others sources, like intermediate speed motion of atoms and stellar aggregates. There is a quantifiable difference in quality; plants prefer the synthetic bioenergy from the sun, whereas animals prefer the organic version that we call, in somewhat ambiguous terms, "love." (Long discussion there, probably better suited to the RS2 fora).

My good friend Singh Li told me that the ancient Chinese practices, like the Mo Pai popularized by John Chang, are the exact opposite of the New Age practices when it comes to the chakras--the Chinese systems work to "untie the knots" that we call chakras, to allow the energy to flow smoothly. I believe there are 72 of them that must be untied in stages, and after that is done, a person is bioenergetically self-sufficient and can do some rather remarkable things.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:So just sitting and basking in one's own glow is the way to go.
I don't think he was talking about "basking in one's own glow" as much as reconnecting with the Earth and engaging a form of harmonic resonance with Nature; a rapport. I've always been a strong proponent of that.

Most of the new age movement is about changing things; change the frequency of Earth, etc. I share George's view in that the Earth knows what it is doing, and we should be good "mid-wives" to assist in the process.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:How is that giving your power away?
I am not sure what 'that' refers to here?

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:02 am

Basically I do agree- but my point was the lumping of all practices into the external catagory. That is the that I was referring to.
Your friend has a system, that I'm sure he learned from someone else- external teaching.
But the practice lead him to an internal experience.
I agree- that should be the sole goal of all spiritual practices.
A real experience of that which is internal.
But we all know there are many layers of crap to work through to get to the light, and to have others who have made that journey and have shown the way is not a hindrance. dependence solely on them is.

Back to the original thread-
I find it interesting that all Wilcox is posting about now is this financial stuff. Talk about focusing on the external..

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:39 am

Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:Basically I do agree- but my point was the lumping of all practices into the external catagory. That is the that I was referring to.
I'd agree with 'that'. One thing I learned from the Reciprocal System is that there is a symmetry to things. I am enjoying George's presentations because he is pointing out the other half that is not talked about in the New Age community much... the connection with Earth and internal strength. IMHO, a bunch more pieces to the big puzzle of Life, the Universe and Everything.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:I find it interesting that all Wilcox is posting about now is this financial stuff. Talk about focusing on the external..
Well, that's just David. There are a lot of rumors floating about that the "Cabal," as David calls them, are going to be eliminated by Christmas, and wealth and prosperity will be dumped upon the world (the Keenan and Russian videos). I'm sure David is positioning himself to be right up front on that, should it actually happen.

I think everyone has noticed how he is avoiding the whole "2012" thing, just days before it hits. That's been mentioned on a lot of fora and chats. A lot of people have been wondering if he actually believes what he's been preaching all these years.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:05 pm

OK- because there is no one I have to talk to about this stuff, I'll blather on here.

One of the things that the approaching date is doing to me is to reflect on my path up to this point, and the changes in not only practices and perspectives, but whole cosmology shifts that I've gone through up to this point.

I started off with a guru and the yoga practices, wandered off, came back to spirituality through Lakota ways, found that once again I saw no one who had achieved where I think I need to go and left that. Wandered into Ra , David and Carla and the L/L info. ( and Sitchen, you here etc.)
That seemed to fit a much larger picture for me, but at this point alot of the basis of that seems to be more fiction and so the feeling of misled. again.
I have always trusted the old systems more than the New age interpretations, but realize I just don't have the discipline needed to make them work.
If there is any vibrational shift going on or not, I can't tell. But I am at a nexus in my own life where much has fallen away. I know this can be a good thing, because intellectually I understand that any concept is "less than" , the old cup can't hold the ocean problem.
But I feel I need to turn to something , but there is no where to turn. And internally I feel a bit shattered so it isn't like the internal light is busting through.
I have always ( more or less) been able to connect through simple mediation- one that has no projections or contemplations. Just like plugging in. It is or it isn't.
For most my life i felt like I was moving forward with some guidance and unseen purpose.
Not feeling that anymore. All I see is where I fell short, or was chasing shadows.
So this upcoming date- real or not does bring these thought to a head. I'm sure they will be there Sat still, but another non event will have passed by.
It actually doesn't matter if my being evolved from the ape stock or was flown in from elsewhere, here I am and this is what i have to work with. So the history and cosmology is interesting stuff to play with mentally, but I don't see how it is of any help developmentally.
So there it is. I know, sounds depressing. I don't think I'm deep into depression, but there is some of that feeling around the edges. Dark night of the soul stuff.
/rant off...

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:21 pm

BTW- if you can point me to any other forums ( other than L/L and David's) that you think is of some credibility- I would appreciate the links.

And I also want to say I have appreciated your lonely little outpost here ( lol) doesn't see much action, but also isn't too filled with unicorns...

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:53 pm

Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:OK- because there is no one I have to talk to about this stuff, I'll blather on here.
No problem... that's why we're here.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:Wandered into Ra , David and Carla and the L/L info. ( and Sitchen, you here etc.)
Given I met David at L/L, I certainly know where you are coming from.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:That seemed to fit a much larger picture for me, but at this point alot of the basis of that seems to be more fiction and so the feeling of misled. again.
I have always trusted the old systems more than the New age interpretations, but realize I just don't have the discipline needed to make them work.
They both have difficulties; I agree with George K. in that the New Age is just a new "religion," as it has the same structure, complete with priests/gurus and following flocks. I find the ancient systems to be far more interesting as they knew a LOT, but unfortunately, the misinterpretation introduced over the generations has tended to romanticize history into spirituality. It is all basically fiction now, but you have to remember that in order for a legend to survive, there must be an element of truth in it--a truth that is intuited, not stated.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:But I feel I need to turn to something , but there is no where to turn. And internally I feel a bit shattered so it isn't like the internal light is busting through.
I definitely know that place! That's the "dark night" when you are transitioning between valuing memes (vMemes, as talked about here concerning Spiral Dynamics). The old values held by the familiar vMemes no longer answer the questions you are asking, and you have yet to embrace a new valuing system, so you're in that "disgruntled spot" in between. If you can identify the vMemes you are already using, then you can take a look at the ones that you aren't--and that would give you a clue as to where to head for information.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:I have always ( more or less) been able to connect through simple mediation- one that has no projections or contemplations. Just like plugging in. It is or it isn't.
I use a similar process, that I call the "zero room" (from an old Doctor Who episode).
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:For most my life i felt like I was moving forward with some guidance and unseen purpose. Not feeling that anymore. All I see is where I fell short, or was chasing shadows.
Are you sure you're not me??? Wayyyyy to familiar. That's me after the hospital trip.

When you are in the vMeme transition, the guidance is actually still there but you are totally unaware of it, and it requires patience. Sometimes it takes the Universe "clock time" to arrange things so synchronicity to do its job.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:So this upcoming date- real or not does bring these thought to a head. I'm sure they will be there Sat still, but another non event will have passed by.
Personally, I'm hoping nothing happens, just to see what the new age comes up with as an excuse--now that they don't have an end-of-the-world date any more.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:It actually doesn't matter if my being evolved from the ape stock or was flown in from elsewhere, here I am and this is what i have to work with. So the history and cosmology is interesting stuff to play with mentally, but I don't see how it is of any help developmentally.
For myself, I have found it extremely helpful to unwind all the misconceptions that I accepted as truths from formal education (school and catechism). Frees up a lot of the psyche when you have a few simple answers to what was formerly a lot of complex issues. It is much easier to find the forest, when there aren't a lot of trees in the way.
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:So there it is. I know, sounds depressing. I don't think I'm deep into depression, but there is some of that feeling around the edges. Dark night of the soul stuff.
/rant off...
Can't speak for others, but I've been there more than once, myself. You WILL get over it; it never seems like it at the time, but eventually the haze will clear and you'll see that purpose again.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:13 pm

Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:BTW- if you can point me to any other forums ( other than L/L and David's) that you think is of some credibility- I would appreciate the links.
The only other place I could suggest is the site I've been using for a research backup, Conscious Hugs (a spinoff of the SoldierHugs site). Most fora are so saturated with the new age wanderer stuff, I don't bother. I spend most of my time reading and doing research on the web.

Sacred texts is one of my favorites, because of their wide range of stuff: http://www.sacred-texts.com/

Pseudepigrapha, Apocrypha and Sacred Writings is another good one: http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:And I also want to say I have appreciated your lonely little outpost here ( lol) doesn't see much action, but also isn't too filled with unicorns...
Thank you. This site has been around a LONG time... it started as a "DEC Notes" forum back in 1988, moved to an egroup (which doesn't even exist any more) and I got the Antiquatis domain around 2000 and started the phpBB forum; been through 5 major updates since then. There have never been a lot of people because I don't promote the site, but we've had some really fantastic discussions over the years.

I believe I still have the original Notes database, which was originally named "New Order"--prior to George Bush's announcement of his New World Order! We all had a good laugh about that back then. I keep it around, even if no one contributes, because I still believe, "to everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose, under Heaven."

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:49 pm

Thanks- I'll mull that over and probably reply tomorrow-
And already reg at conscious hugs- i see Daniel is big there- must be a newer site, not a lot of posts yet.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Arcelius » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 am

Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:Basically I do agree- but my point was the lumping of all practices into the external catagory. That is the that I was referring to.
Your friend has a system, that I'm sure he learned from someone else- external teaching.
But the practice lead him to an internal experience.
When an external practice or ritual matches or mirrors an internal reality, then some real internal progress can be made. A true guru (or whatever) will try to guide you to the point where you recognize your internal reality and no longer need the external practices or rituals. Beyond that, they know that they have no purpose in guiding you and need to let you go (beware of anyone who tries to hold on to you regardless).
Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:I have always trusted the old systems more than the New age interpretations, but realize I just don't have the discipline needed to make them work.
I don't really trust anyone else's systems anymore whether they are old or new. I think that ultimately, everyone should build their own "system" that works for them. I believe there is some guidance on the forum and site around building your own symbology-scape to help with interpreting dreams and other experiences. I believe that much has been added to the old systems unnecessarily. While some discipline is required, many of the older systems have acquired some useless practices along the way. I have heard an Eastern guru admit that many things that are required of his students are done simply to ensure that they will take the real teachings seriously when eventually given, keep them secret, test the students resolve, and have no other purpose.
LoneBear wrote:For myself, I have found it extremely helpful to unwind all the misconceptions that I accepted as truths from formal education (school and catechism). Frees up a lot of the psyche when you have a few simple answers to what was formerly a lot of complex issues. It is much easier to find the forest, when there aren't a lot of trees in the way.
I also have found that extremely helpful in unwinding all the incorrect things I have learned. It also provides for some rich symbolism that can help you in communicating with your subconscious.

Much luck with your dark night of the soul!

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:37 pm

Well, the day has come, and the Big Gurus of the New Age are very noticeably silent.

Crow is a hard to swallow. So much BS ( and I bought into it too) was placed on today.
No doom, but a vibrational shift. The only shift I feel is time to let go of the BS.
Not a bad thing, but maybe this will be the death of the " new Age". Probably not. We as humans always want something to look forward too.

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by LoneBear » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Sugmanitu Tanka wrote:Well, the day has come, and the Big Gurus of the New Age are very noticeably silent.
Crow is a hard to swallow. So much BS ( and I bought into it too) was placed on today.
No doom, but a vibrational shift. The only shift I feel is time to let go of the BS.
Not a bad thing, but maybe this will be the death of the " new Age". Probably not. We as humans always want something to look forward too.
To be fair, the solstice does actually last for 3 days according to the Maya, before the sun takes the transition upward (it's at the lower peak of a sine wave, that is nearly flat). So they have until Monday.

Last I heard, the Galactic Federation phoned in and apparently their Ascend-O-Matic blew a fuse, and they had to send out for replacement parts. Might be a couple years before UPS (Universal Parcel Service) gets there. :D

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Re: December 21, 2012

Post by Sugmanitu Tanka » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:40 am

Now that a day has passed, I'm feeling a bit lighter. Actually glad that the build up of expectations is behind us ( me ) and i'm left with the same set of "catalysts" that was before- minus one.
Sorry David, I'm not following your cliff hangers about the next big change right around the corner. The cabal will have to collapse without me..

But , you know- if the Ascend-o-matic does show up, who am I to send it back? lol

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