Homo Sapiens Ethicus

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Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by LoneBear » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:02 am

I'm grabbing this quote from another post, as it brings up an interesting point that should be in its own thread:
MrTwig wrote:You once said "intelligence looks after its self" as if you have to be in the right frame of mind to see it. It was in the stone library conversation. I see the world as made up of natural thoughts. All is imagination. No one enters without using ethical thinking.
So, what exactly IS "ethical thinking" and how does the concept of homo sapiens ethicus differ from everyday man?

The concept of "ethics" was quite popular amongst the Greek philosophers, because they recognized that there was a seed in mankind that made some men different from others, and that difference was "ethical behavior" in a world of warriors.

There are currently three classifications of humanity inhabiting our world, based on crossing psychology with anthropology:

Homo Sapiens Erectus: the bulk of the population. Able to think while standing, but spends most of the time sitting in front of the television.

Homo Sapiens: the bureaucracy and management. Thinking is directed to ego-gratification through the manipulation of others (rivalry).

Homo Sapiens Ethicus: the rare breed of new philosophers. Thought is used to find the best, possible solutions for all involved (rapport).

The first two classifications are "Tier 1" in Spiral Dynamics, comprising the master-slave relationships where Erectus is the slave, and Sapiens is the master. You can choose whatever labels you want, manager-employee, priest-congregation, etc., it is still all the same relationship: one-to-many.

Ethicus is the start of "Tier 2" and by realizing that, we can define some of the characteristics of "ethics." The first Tier 2 vMeme is the "yellow," systemic thought--you have assembled the pieces of your knowledge and experience into a consistent world view (a weltenschauung). However, this "big picture" is still mechanistic. Larson's Reciprocal System is a good example of this. He took all the individual theories (like puzzle pieces) and found the "system," the common denominator, that allowed them all to be connected as a single picture. This is what is conventionally known as a "theory of everything" (though Gopi disagrees with that term, in his recent paper). Personally, I find the term adequate to describe the systemic level of thought that Larson used to create a Universe of Motion (motion, the inverse relation between space and time, being what assembled the pieces.)

Once that world view is created, then one can see--and anticipate--consequences of any action, including their own, as all the pieces connect.

Ethics also has two aspects, as documented in The Ra Material as "service," service-to-self (STS) and service-to-others (STO). (An interesting aside: in the Sci-Fi series Caprica, the "Soldiers of the One," the terrorist, religious group, were known as the "STO," with the infinity symbol as their logo.) STS people look at how actions effect themselves, whereas STO people look at how actions affect others.

Of course, a person walking the "third way" (what I've called Kheb on the forum) will see both paths of service to be valid--but not take sides, and keep on walking...
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Lozion » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 pm

Great insight LoneBear, the path of Kheb liberates us from guilt associated with choosing a side. Actually, I've never quite understood why the LoO insists on only 2 possible paths STS or STO. The duality distorsion is not the end all be all so it seems. Tell us more about the third way, Kheb?
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Ilkka » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:24 am

Lozion wrote:Actually, I've never quite understood why the LoO insists on only 2 possible paths STS or STO. The duality distorsion is not the end all be all so it seems.
This is interesting and says alot about the fact that they have control over you if you choose a side. Much like all religions have. Although there is a little catch in STO, since the things you do come back to you aswell so its also STS in a way, so I cant think of a third choice, unless its doing nothing, however doing nothing cant exist in the world of motion, since everything is motion, not motionless. Maybe the third choice is eluding us or it is in fact on the edge of the "coin" that we cant comprehend (just yet). Maybe its the both ways, "the neutral zone".
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by LoneBear » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:48 am

Lozion wrote:Actually, I've never quite understood why the LoO insists on only 2 possible paths STS or STO. The duality distorsion is not the end all be all so it seems.
The Law of One does have a 3rd path, but you have to read between the lines a bit to find it: the path the Guardians took so they could remain unbiased in service. And even Ra says that the dichotomy is resolved in the 6th density, the Density of Unity.

But after seeing what the L-Ms accomplished on their own, right here in the 3rd density... there is another way that is open to us, right now, if we care to use it.
Lozion wrote:Tell us more about the third way, Kheb?
The original converstion from 2005 is here: A Path that Doesn't Play the Game.

It would make for good background reading. Now, 10 years later, I can greatly improve upon the interpretation.
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Ilkka » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:00 pm

So where is this "Archive" that is talked about in that conversation?

I didnt catch that in my quick look around there, sry for trouble to repeat oneself and then some.
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Arcelius » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:46 am

LoneBear wrote:
Lozion wrote:Actually, I've never quite understood why the LoO insists on only 2 possible paths STS or STO. The duality distorsion is not the end all be all so it seems.
The Law of One does have a 3rd path, but you have to read between the lines a bit to find it: the path the Guardians took so they could remain unbiased in service. And even Ra says that the dichotomy is resolved in the 6th density, the Density of Unity.

But after seeing what the L-Ms accomplished on their own, right here in the 3rd density... there is another way that is open to us, right now, if we care to use it.
At this point in time, I believe that it is a mistake to think that there is only one other way available. It is more like the STO/STS "paths" (or service path) are being rammed down people's throats. If you can look beyond that, there are a great many other opportunities. I would caution against looking for shortcuts though. In my experience, there really aren't any.

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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by LoneBear » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:07 am

Ilkka wrote:So where is this "Archive" that is talked about in that conversation?
I didnt catch that in my quick look around there, sry for trouble to repeat oneself and then some.
There is a writeup I did, some time ago, on the main site: The Archive of the Ancients.
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by LoneBear » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:03 pm

Continuing from my initial post...

The yellow, systemic thought is a rational process that is primarily intellectual. In Latin, the word for "intellect" and "spirit" is the same: animus. Just as anima means "to bring to life" in the physical world, animus infers the "bringing to life" in the otherworld, the alter mundi. Larson, in Beyond Space and Time, indicates that life just needs a connection between the material and cosmic sectors, and the ratio need not necessarily be 1-to-1. Initially, the material body is predominately m-atoms with a small smattering of c-atoms to animate the system into a life unit. As the complexity increases, more linkage between the two sectors evolves, adding to the anima (soul).

Just as a newborn takes a while to learn to walk, talk and develop an ego structure that will keep it alive and functioning, the evolving anima does the same thing on the cosmic (3D time) side as it evolves. The onset of the anima's version of the ego, called the shadow by Jung, takes about 2 years in human newborns (known by parents as the "terrible 2's").

The physical body grows by the consumption of food, and so does the anima, but is eating "food for thought," what is termed in psychology as feelings (not to be confused with emotions). Just as "thinking" is a rational function to organize information in space, feeling is the corresponding, rational function to organize information in time. Because the body is normalized in clock time, and the soul in clock space, they evolve at different rates--which often may not appear to be directly correlated.

The ego then becomes a psychological complex whose function is to keep the physical body alive. The shadow (or alter-ego, the "other ego"), becomes the complex to keep the soul (anima) alive. The arbiter is the evolving animus, the "spiritual intellect," that attempts to keep the biological system in balance, symbolically represented by the driver in the Tarot "Chariot" trump card, having reigns over the dichotomy of black (yin, feeling) and white (yang, thinking). But the driver doesn't always give attention equally, and many times, that depends upon the terrain the chariot is being pulled across--sometimes, one horse must do more work than the other. This creates a bias in the psyche; rather than the ego or shadow performing equal functions, one becomes dominant, depending on need. In our materialistic society, that is usually the ego, as we are faced with constant stress and fear in the physical world and are literally in a spiritual desert on the other side, with not much to do.

The alchemical traditions were one of the early attempts to bring balance back to the psyche, where this dichotomy of ego and shadow (the masculine and feminine principles) underwent a strict process of development to unite them as equals. And this is the process the Alchemists used to make that transition to the Tier 2 vMeme--discovering the "system" of turning lead into gold.

"Civilized" society is far more intellectual these days, and when a person starts contemplating deep subjects, they are actually engaging a similar, alchemical process and evolving their anima, in order to use the intuition (3D time version of the physical senses) in problem solving. They end up the open minded, free thinkers and philosophers that the Tier 1 people like to refer to as "crackpots." (Rivalry response; if you can't comprehend it, attack it.) So there are a lot more alchemists out there today, than every before. Ken Wilber puts it as high as 10% of the population.

Homo sapiens ethicus begins with Tier 2, seeing the system. The scientific underground uses the Reciprocal System of theory as it's bridge to Tier 2, because it provides simpler explanations for Tier 1 scientific phenomena, creating a psychological bridge between a singular modality of thought (quanta), to a corresponding systemic one (motion). Daniel's papers, though appearing scientific, really aren't... they are performing a similar function between the blue, "truth force" (religious) and green, "New Age" vMemes, over to the yellow-turquoise borderland of Tier 2, where Larson's science (RS) is being extended into the cosmic, 3D time aspect of things (RS2), the turquoise, "Holistic" application of the Reciprocal System.

If you find the whole concept of "3D time" makes sense and helps you to understand the Universe better, then you are on the bridge to Tier 2, because it is bring balance--a symmetry between space and time, as well as the "terrain" of the body and anima. If you pursue the Reciprocal System, you will have made the crossing to Tier 2 when you begin to understand the concept of motion, that ratio between space and time that the ancient philosophers describe as yin-yang. If you think about it, the Reciprocal System is the new Alchemy, with all it's strange "potions of motions" and unusual concepts that seem very difficult to comprehend--until you realize you already know them, and they are just being blocked by "education."
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Preparing for the Journey

Post by LoneBear » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:52 am

I've noticed that the concept of ethics and morality have a different meaning these days, as compared to the old, Grecian debates of 400 BCE.

The modern concept appears to be derived from two sources:

Morality: from the blue, Truth Force vMeme of religions, your "moral compass," which is an attempt to alter personal behavior through the reward/punishment system. Moral dilemmas occur when that programming goes into conflict with your natural responses.

Ethics: from the orange, Entrepreneurial vMeme of corporations, known as "professional ethics." In other words, ethics have now become "company policy" to which you must adhere.

The philosopher debates of the days of old centered around different concepts:

Morality, from the Latin mos, means "rules of behavior." They are internal rules that you use to make decisions in your life, based on knowledge and experience. Take, for example, the classic "trolley" problem: a train is coming down the track, and will surely hit 5 people that are on the tracks, just a short distance from you. Next to you is a switch that can divert the train down another track, where only 1 person is. Do you throw the switch and kill the 1 person, to save the 5?

Most people will say "yes." Unless you make a slight "valuing" alteration, and make that 1 person your spouse or child. Then it becomes "no," because that 1 familiar person is valued higher than 5 strangers. So morality are the rules you use to make personal decisions.

What is taught (or legislated) as "morality" these days is that you are TOLD to throw the switch and kill your spouse to save the 5 people, because "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one," and if you don't, you'll be shot or thrown in jail for the rest of your life. In other words, your ego's desire for self-preservation is used as a tool to enforce "moral" behavior, because survival is the highest priority in your valuing system.

Ethics, from the Latin etos and Greek ethos, means "character" (duty, honor and responsibility of an individual). It can be considered the "Tier 2" morality, where you are concerned with the "rules of systemic behavior," rather than your personal choices. Ethical choices are made to assist the evolution of consciousness, for all involved in the scope of the problem being considered. The trolley problem, with 6 unknown people, is not an ethical one, but a moral one, as nothing is known about the system. However, should homo sapiens ethicus find themselves in just that situation, additional data would be available concerning the system, because of the developed psionic ability--which includes the ability to use intuitive information, such as making a determination of which track to choose--for that 1 person may be spiritually advanced, and the 5 just "red shirts," which would make the "one" the larger contribution to evolution of the species. You would KNOW the correct choice to make, as you are PART of the system being considered.

There is a lot of talk in the spiritual movements about the elimination of ego; I, of course, do not agree. You require the ego (and the shadow) for physical survival. That is the way the system functions best. Issues arise when the ego usurps other functions, such as those of the ethical character (sometimes called the Self), and all decisions are moral, rather than ethical.

To engage ethics, one must look at the process of making choices, to determine what part of the psyche has enough influence to execute the choice made. If you already have an active animus (spirit or intellect), then it can observe the other complexes and determine exactly how a decision was arrived at, and discover if it was an ethical or moral choice. It also gives you the opportunity to find out if other complexes, like the ego, are "doing their job," and not trying to do the job of other complexes within the psyche. Understand that this does run contrary to the materialistic social programming of today, which tries to put the ego in charge of the entire psyche, so the only decision-making process available is "what is best for me"--and they'll provide the answer, for only $19.95 + shipping and handling.

If you are still operating from the ego-persona, but the concept of homo sapiens ethicus touches something--well, what it is touching is the animus, the Self, which is trying to switch on. It requires an "act of will," the intentional direction of bioenergy into the Self, to get it up and running. One needs to engage the system by making decisions, and analyzing the process of that decision-making, even if theoretical.
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Lozion » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:01 pm

Again, great insight LoneBear. Txs for sharing.
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Re: Preparing for the Journey

Post by MrTwig » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:59 pm

LoneBear wrote: If you are still operating from the ego-persona, but the concept of homo sapiens ethicus touches something--well, what it is touching is the animus, the Self, which is trying to switch on. It requires an "act of will," the intentional direction of bioenergy into the Self, to get it up and running. One needs to engage the system by making decisions, and analyzing the process of that decision-making, even if theoretical.
So when we think that something is not "right" and begin to analyze the process of what is happening we enter a realm of ethicus? Animus or intelligence requires an ability "look within" and question the ideas or challenges that come to us. What is a natural response to me may not be natural to you, even though the world in total is a natural mechanism that does not require either of us to react in the same way. My ego is the outward appearance of my anime and all I know is tied to its reactions to question that come my way. How then does rapport change this?

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Introspection and Internal Honesty

Post by LoneBear » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:30 pm

MrTwig wrote:So when we think that something is not "right" and begin to analyze the process of what is happening we enter a realm of ethicus? Animus or intelligence requires an ability "look within" and question the ideas or challenges that come to us.
The concept is called "introspection" and is a very powerful technique for self-improvement. However, it requires something called "internal honesty," which means taking a concept that you do not agree with (or strongly disagree with), and for a moment, assume it is true (in the Boolean sense, not the subjective) and consider what the consequences of that truth would be and how it would affect you.

Be warned that you have societal programming to overcome, concerning honesty. Society teaches you to be dishonest, as in the saying, "nice guys finish last." It teaches "if you make a mistake, cover it up--don't admit it, or you'll be liable for the consequences." If you notice, when I discuss rapport, I speak of duty, honor and responsibility. IMHO, one of the big things that needs to change in our societal relationships is taking responsibility for our actions. Everybody screws up now and then, but society prefers to inflict punishment (retribution), rather than give someone the opportunity to fix the mistake (restitution). Says a lot for "society."

What most people do not understand is that when you are "wrong," it is because of a bad assumption in your world view. Introspection will often reveal the bad assumption, which you can then "update" and recalculate your knowledge, based on better data. That's one of the reasons I like Larson's Reciprocal System--to understand the system, you have to use that internal honesty and introspection to dig into your own psyche, to find the blocks that keep you from understanding his concepts. In other words, it "blows your mind," as it did for me when I read a summary of Larson's work in a newsgroup, decades ago, that stated that "light is 'still' and everything else is moving." (Larson's concept of photons riding the progression of the natural reference system.) Most people call it an "absurdity," then grab a beer and switch on wrestling on the SciFi channel. I did the "what if that was true?" and eventually got an understanding of scalar motion from it, by locating the premises that kept me from understanding and temporarily disabling them. (I don't delete structures, just make an internal note of "bad assumption," as it helps me to relate and communicate to others that have the same set of assumptions.)

Daniel's writing style is based on pointing out the "societal programming" that contains false and inaccurate assumptions. It doesn't mean that daniel is right--it just means that he's identified something inaccurate in the chain of premise-and-conclusion. And that can be very liberating, but can throw you into a state that I call a "correlative update" (from Stargate SG-1, where the DHD's have to retransmit location data every so often, to correlate for the relative motion of stars).

A very large correlative update can also throw you into a condition known as the Dark Night of the Soul, which is a type of emotional depression. What happens is that the update empties your psychic "recycle bin" to get more free space, and since the update runs in the background (your subconscious), your conscious mind temporarily loses the paths to the concepts effected. The result is you feel isolated and alone, and "nobody cares about me." Been through it, myself, plenty of times. And when you are in that situation, you feel that you're trapped there and will never get out. But you will... just takes a little patience, as the subconscious just needs some "clock time" to finish the reorganization. When it happens to you, remember this--you WILL come out of it, and when you do, you will notice it is considerably easier to think and feel, because all the clutter is gone. And concepts you were struggling with before, become dirt simple. The Dark Night is basically the psychic version of getting a good nights sleep--from mental exhaustion. When you finally wake up, you feel very refreshed.
MrTwig wrote:What is a natural response to me may not be natural to you, even though the world in total is a natural mechanism that does not require either of us to react in the same way.
Once you realize how space and time interact, Nature is very mechanistic. The lack of 3D time in conventional thought is what makes it mysterious, since you're not considering half of the Universe. The "natural response" to me picking up something hot, is to let it go. If yours is to grab on tighter, then it is an unnatural response, because it is violating the prime directive of the ego--to keep your body safe and sound. That would indicate there is another complex in the psyche overriding the instincts, which is a huge amount of locked-up bioenergy. That's the kind of thing where introspection comes in handy.

Once you start to see the system (Tier 2 vMeme), and get to the holistic valuing meme, the bulk of the population becomes predictable to 12 decimal places, because they are just reacting to the mechanical laws of Nature. TPTB takes advantage of this, and is one of the reasons they do not want people to be educated--just "trained." The intellect allows action over the instinctive reaction. And that makes someone unpredictable. Hard to pull off those false flags, if you cannot predict the reaction!
MrTwig wrote:My ego is the outward appearance of my anime and all I know is tied to its reactions to question that come my way.
Right concept, wrong terms... persona is the outward appearance that your ego, shadow or self generates to interact with the physical or emotional environment. Persona is easily created and destroyed, and is used to facilitate communication. Classic example is the concept of mimicking body language. If you want someone to accept you, you mimic their behavior at a persona level. Same stance, fold your arms if they fold theirs... bioenergy is intermediate speed, so "like attracts like" and "opposites repel."
MrTwig wrote:How then does rapport change this?
When people work together in rapport, the psyche begins to notice that it does not need to put up those masks of persona to effectively communicate. The need to judge, and be judged, fades away, so there is less energy put into the fabrication of tools for communication, and more energy into the work the people got together to accomplish. And it is amazing what can be accomplished.
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by mongo » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:31 pm

Lonebear, What do mean by "red shirts'?

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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Arcelius » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:32 pm

logey wrote:Lonebear, What do mean by "red shirts'?
I believe that is a Star Trek reference. In the original Star Trek, the security people wore red shirts. The was especially noticeable whenever an "away-team" was formed. Usually, the people wearing the red shirts would die and so it became a nerdy reference for expendable people.

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Red shirts

Post by LoneBear » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:10 pm

logey wrote:Lonebear, What do mean by "red shirts'?
Arcelius wrote:I believe that is a Star Trek reference. In the original Star Trek, the security people wore red shirts. The was especially noticeable whenever an "away-team" was formed. Usually, the people wearing the red shirts would die and so it became a nerdy reference for expendable people.
Yes, Arcelius is correct. The "red shirts" were worn by Starfleet Engineering and Security on classic Star Trek, and it became a running joke that any actor that was given a red shirt to wear on the series would be dead by the end of the episode. (Scotty was the exception.) It became a Sci-Fi term to refer to people that "didn't really matter," which was the context I was using it in. If your wife, husband or sibling is that "one" on the track, than the five others "don't really matter."
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Re: Introspection and Internal Honesty

Post by joeyv23 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:36 am

LoneBear wrote:Be warned that you have societal programming to overcome, concerning honesty. Society teaches you to be dishonest, as in the saying, "nice guys finish last." It teaches "if you make a mistake, cover it up--don't admit it, or you'll be liable for the consequences." If you notice, when I discuss rapport, I speak of duty, honor and responsibility. IMHO, one of the big things that needs to change in our societal relationships is taking responsibility for our actions. Everybody screws up now and then, but society prefers to inflict punishment (retribution), rather than give someone the opportunity to fix the mistake (restitution). Says a lot for "society."
Would you believe that during my 2 years in the USN, we were actually taught "if you make a mistake, own up to it, and ask for correction" I do see this very often in the civilian world though, anytime I've made a mistake while learning the ins and outs of a new job, I would always instantly own up to a mistake, ask how to correct it, and would almost always receive a bewildered stare.
LoneBear wrote: A very large correlative update can also throw you into a condition known as the Dark Night of the Soul, which is a type of emotional depression. What happens is that the update empties your psychic "recycle bin" to get more free space, and since the update runs in the background (your subconscious), your conscious mind temporarily loses the paths to the concepts effected. The result is you feel isolated and alone, and "nobody cares about me." Been through it, myself, plenty of times. And when you are in that situation, you feel that you're trapped there and will never get out. But you will... just takes a little patience, as the subconscious just needs some "clock time" to finish the reorganization. When it happens to you, remember this--you WILL come out of it, and when you do, you will notice it is considerably easier to think and feel, because all the clutter is gone. And concepts you were struggling with before, become dirt simple. The Dark Night is basically the psychic version of getting a good nights sleep--from mental exhaustion. When you finally wake up, you feel very refreshed.
This is by far the best explanation for this that I've seen. I've had it happen twice.. the first time after I read the first few papers that Daniel put together and again a few months later after reading them again up to the one on Geochronology. After coming out of it the second time, I fell into a very New Age love and light mindset. I see now that it was necessary so that I can relate to others going through the same thing and lend my advice, helping where I can. It's a difficult thing telling someone who's unbalanced towards the light that there's more to things than this. I remember being so angry anytime I would see someone say anything about a false-light or demiurge, and for many months last year, wouldn't even consider reading into any article, blog, or forum post that had these words in it. I even stopped going to CH for a while because of Daniel's stance on the New Age religion (one that I now share) It took seeing a channeling from Ashtar around Thanksgiving, instructing people to send their thanks to Jesus/Sananda for all the work he'd done, blah, blah, I saw through this as a request for supplication and I was then able to read into false-light/demiurge/Daniel's last papers. I felt another dark night coming on, but having been through it before, knew that it would all be ok, I just needed to give myself time to rest and process the revalation.
LoneBear wrote:Once you start to see the system (Tier 2 vMeme), and get to the holistic valuing meme, the bulk of the population becomes predictable to 12 decimal places, because they are just reacting to the mechanical laws of Nature.
Can you describe your transition from the Systemic to Holistic vMeme? I've seen mention of how a connection to nature was significant for you, and I got this from Daniel
daniel wrote:The RS2 folks are the next stage past Larson, the "turquoise" or Holistic valuing, which is seeing beyond the system, to the "whole." That's why RS2 is more metaphysical than Larson's physical universe. The metaphysical side is the cosmic influence on the material, that RS2 incorporates.
I feel like I have at least some understanding of the metaphysical side of life, but since moving into the Yellow vMeme, have given it a rest and having been focusing more on watching as the pieces fall together. I'm currently working out the symbols of my psyche for your Pschocartography method of creating communication from the conscious to the unconscious and back (Many thanks to you for that btw) and am wondering if you could give a description of the shift up, or point me to where it's been discussed previously? 3.7 to 4.1 seems like a hefty jump considering the other vMemes are only single sub-densities apart from each other!
LoneBear wrote:
MrTwig wrote:How then does rapport change this?
When people work together in rapport, the psyche begins to notice that it does not need to put up those masks of persona to effectively communicate. The need to judge, and be judged, fades away, so there is less energy put into the fabrication of tools for communication, and more energy into the work the people got together to accomplish. And it is amazing what can be accomplished.
What sucks for me is having the persona mask off, trying to communicate with people that wear theirs very tightly. I don't do well with mundane conversation, can't talk sports like most guys my age, can't get into a political conversation with anyone.. (working at a hotel is helping with this though, observing folks as they pass through in the morning time and chat for breakfast) Outside of my immediate family and close ring of friends, communication is shaky at best.. lots of awkward pauses, glancing around, trying not to make any muggles too uncomfortable, because most often when I do speak up, it's about consciousness, or alternative ideas to things we as a society accept as truth. It's getting easier, but I'm learning how to be gentle with their psyche when introducing new, potentially "mind blowing" ideas.

For the sake of redundancy, I thank you LoneBear and everyone else that contributes here and at CH. You guys have made my life more interesting in an extreme sense in the past couple of years :)
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by Djchrismac » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:03 am

joeyv23 wrote:Would you believe that during my 2 years in the USN, we were actually taught "if you make a mistake, own up to it, and ask for correction" I do see this very often in the civilian world though, anytime I've made a mistake while learning the ins and outs of a new job, I would always instantly own up to a mistake, ask how to correct it, and would almost always receive a bewildered stare.
I'm the same Joey, always happy to admit and learn from my mistakes and make sure I don't do them again.
joeyv23 wrote:This is by far the best explanation for this that I've seen. I've had it happen twice.. the first time after I read the first few papers that Daniel put together and again a few months later after reading them again up to the one on Geochronology. After coming out of it the second time, I fell into a very New Age love and light mindset. I see now that it was necessary so that I can relate to others going through the same thing and lend my advice, helping where I can. It's a difficult thing telling someone who's unbalanced towards the light that there's more to things than this. I remember being so angry anytime I would see someone say anything about a false-light or demiurge, and for many months last year, wouldn't even consider reading into any article, blog, or forum post that had these words in it. I even stopped going to CH for a while because of Daniel's stance on the New Age religion (one that I now share) It took seeing a channeling from Ashtar around Thanksgiving, instructing people to send their thanks to Jesus/Sananda for all the work he'd done, blah, blah, I saw through this as a request for supplication and I was then able to read into false-light/demiurge/Daniel's last papers. I felt another dark night coming on, but having been through it before, knew that it would all be ok, I just needed to give myself time to rest and process the revalation.
Again this is quite similar to what's happened for me as i've gone through a few smaller (i think) dark nights with a bigger one happening last year although i've had less religious programming to purge than most and Daniel's papers haven't been too earth shattering for me, more confirming or giving more info on things I had already read up on, linking theories and giving me a few more revelations to investigate. My big change has been learning RS2 and unlearning how I view the universe taught by years of education to incorporate motion, space and time. I do have some things I need to work through and eliminate from my life before I can make the jump to Tier 2...
joeyv23 wrote:I feel like I have at least some understanding of the metaphysical side of life, but since moving into the Yellow vMeme, have given it a rest and having been focusing more on watching as the pieces fall together. I'm currently working out the symbols of my psyche for your Pschocartography method of creating communication from the conscious to the unconscious and back (Many thanks to you for that btw) and am wondering if you could give a description of the shift up, or point me to where it's been discussed previously? 3.7 to 4.1 seems like a hefty jump considering the other vMemes are only single sub-densities apart from each other!
I'm not sure where I am just now in the vMemes but I know what I need to do to improve myself and keep my evolution moving upwards and i'm sure i'll recognise Tier 2 when I get there! Psychocartography is what i'm working on as well.
joeyv23 wrote:What sucks for me is having the persona mask off, trying to communicate with people that wear theirs very tightly. I don't do well with mundane conversation, can't talk sports like most guys my age, can't get into a political conversation with anyone.. (working at a hotel is helping with this though, observing folks as they pass through in the morning time and chat for breakfast) Outside of my immediate family and close ring of friends, communication is shaky at best.. lots of awkward pauses, glancing around, trying not to make any muggles too uncomfortable, because most often when I do speak up, it's about consciousness, or alternative ideas to things we as a society accept as truth. It's getting easier, but I'm learning how to be gentle with their psyche when introducing new, potentially "mind blowing" ideas.
Haha I agree completely with the points i've highlighted above! I feel i'm on my own a lot and just go through the motions with "normal" conversation, I now find sports boring but still tune in a bit so i'm not alienating myself from my friends, I can barely stand the TV being on now and even watching documentaries online all violence and manipulation just turns me (and the TV/PC) off big time!

Be careful speaking to others though, I now tend to keep my mouth closed and only mention things like Geoengineering briefly in conversation to those I think will be open to it and not call me a nutter. Those who are curious will begin to investigate it on their own. I find it easier to talk about RS2 and space/time as it is (usually) a bit less controversial than mentioning things like the Illuminati and will hopefully intrigue "science" types and give them a new angle on things.
joeyv23 wrote:I thank you LoneBear and everyone else that contributes here and at CH. You guys have made my life more interesting in an extreme sense in the past couple of years :)
You're welcome, i'm just on the same path as you and trying to help others along while walking the path myself and likewise I really appreciate the help and advice Bruce, Daniel and everyone here gives.
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Re: Homo Sapiens Ethicus

Post by dave432 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:02 pm

LoneBear wrote:
Ethics also has two aspects, as documented in The Ra Material as "service," service-to-self (STS) and service-to-others (STO).
When you expressed STS and STO as a ratio (STS:STO), something clicked for me, probably because I spend time trying to comprehend musical ratios. For example; a 3:2 musical perfect fifth ratio isn't two notes but one. Seeing STS and STO this way really helped me to see them as aspects of something larger. In school, I once wrote a paper on the union of opposites and used as an arguing point that hot and cold are opposite extremes but on the same temperature scale.

I wonder if the Tier 2 pairs of Level 3 (ethics) and Level 4 (the tomorrow people) are considered a type of rivalry from the more advanced perspective of Levels 5 and 6, yet from Level 3 and 4's perspective, the ratio is rapport?
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Re: Preparing for the Journey

Post by dave432 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:44 pm

LoneBear wrote: social programming of today ... tries to put the ego in charge of the entire psyche, so the only decision-making process available is "what is best for me"
Boy, is that true. Ever since the 70's "Me Generation" stuff up to today's "selfie," there is nothing but self-glorification going on. We all need to have a good self-image but within a system (without the spiral dynamics language, I never would have put it that way). Wouldn't it be nice if the trend were to take a photo of the person you most admire and post that photo along with an explanation as to why that person is so important to you? That could really work and it wouldn't be corny, either. People would really get a sense that we are all in this life together.

With all the self worship going on, a global religion won't have a chance of catching on.
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Re: Introspection and Internal Honesty

Post by LoneBear » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:11 pm

joeyv23 wrote:Can you describe your transition from the Systemic to Holistic vMeme? I've seen mention of how a connection to nature was significant for you, ...
If you examine the behaviors associated with vMemes, they fall into a yang-yin oscillation (much like Ra's densities).

Yang (masculine, hot, outward): Beige (instinct), Red (power gods), Orange (Entrepreneurial) -- Yellow (Systemic)

Yin (feminine, cold, inward): Purple (tribal), Blue (truth force), Green (New Age) -- Holistic (Turquoise)

The system actually looks more like the Star of David than a spiral, with a yang triangle superimposed over an opposite yin triangle. Also, if you notice, this is exactly the SAME model that Larson uses to model atomic structure in 3 dimensions (the vertices), 3 spatial (yang) and 3 temporal (yin).

The RS2 references made by daniel are analogous to "going beyond space and time" in the dimensional sense, into Tier 2--additional dimensions constructed on the "3 dimensional datum." Turquoise is not really a transition, as much as an inclusion, where you complete the conjugate polarity of the new, Tier 2 dimension.

In Nature, things tend to stay symmetric, which is why the old philosophers considered the sphere to be perfection. Larson does the same thing in his atomic system. If you look at the sequence of magnetic displacements for atoms (page 132, Nothing But Motion), it goes: 2-1, 2-2, 3-2, 3-3, 4-3, 4-4, 5-4 ... notice there is no 5-1 because that unbalanced pattern would quickly degenerate by transferring 2 units of principle rotation (5) to the subordinate rotation (1), resulting in a sphere of 3-3. I've noticed this pattern repeatedly in Nature, even the vMemes. They tend to work in pairs, Beige-Purple, Red-Blue, Orange-Green and Yellow-Turquoise. This is why I concluded there are two, different aspects of the psyche--the corpus (yang ego) and the anima (yin soul) learning at the same time, and increasing their vMeme intelligence in the same way that atoms build up, in the RS. This "walking" pattern is much simpler than a spiral vortex, and has general applicability--less "patterns" to memorize, freeing up more psychic space for new ideas!

With that background, you can see that holism is just the soul perspective of the systemic; rather than using sensation valued by thinking (systemic), it uses intuition valued by feeling (holistic). To understand holistic valuing, just yank the systemic values inside-out, then add them together. Exchange object with function, thinking with feeling, sensation with intuition. Systemic thought sees things as objects connected by mysterious forces. Holistic thought sees things as forces connected by mysterious objects. Once you've seen both sides of the "coin" of that vMeme dimension, then the mysteries have been explored and resolved. (Most people misunderstand Spiral Dynamics as a sequential system--it is additive. You are always adding to your valuing memes. Once one is completed, it is still there for you to use as new ones are being wrapped around it, like the layers of an onion. Again, this maps to Larson's concepts of "growth measure" in the time region, where it is additive. Outside, if you have the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, then 4 is the total. Inside, if you have 1/1, 1/2, 1/3,/ 1/4 then the total is the sum, not the last measurement. Because it is the same PATTERN, we can infer that the vMemes are an internal function, inside the life unit.)

Nature "lives" the vMemes, where you can both SEE and FEEL them. When you start to ask yourself, "do trees make a forest, or is the forest comprised of trees?" The former is systemic, the latter holistic. It is basically the difference of a many-to-1 system, versus a 1-to-many whole. When you complete turquoise, you'll seem them more as a cross-ratio; two faces of something else.

And I have noticed that women (let me qualify that; women that embrace their feminine side as primary) will move through the vMemes the other way, and once they depart the Green, New Age, will enter the turquoise, holistic vMeme first--then have to add in the yellow systemic.
joeyv23 wrote:I feel like I have at least some understanding of the metaphysical side of life, but since moving into the Yellow vMeme, have given it a rest and having been focusing more on watching as the pieces fall together. I'm currently working out the symbols of my psyche for your Pschocartography method of creating communication from the conscious to the unconscious and back (Many thanks to you for that btw) and am wondering if you could give a description of the shift up, or point me to where it's been discussed previously? 3.7 to 4.1 seems like a hefty jump considering the other vMemes are only single sub-densities apart from each other!
The metaphysical side of life deals with the cosmic sector, 3D time, as a primary system. We're talking time/space, versus space/time (a distinction I explained to Carla and David, back in the L/L days). Since we are pretty much stuck in the material, 3D space system with our physical bodies, we only perceive the metaphysical side to things indirectly, through what Larson calls "equivalent space" (or hyperspace, if you prefer Sci-Fi). But understand that equivalent space is just the "shadow of 3D time" in Plato's cave, so you are actually dealing with the Other Realm (the Agartha or 3D time half of Tiamat).

As such, the rules of psychocartography still apply, but yanked inside-out. The first step is to identify your conscious symbols, find out where the "ME" is in relation to them, then arrange to find the unconscious symbols. You will also notice a right-left correspondence between thinking and feeling. But remember that you are using a systemic approach (symbols) and the metaphysical symbols are shadows of equivalent "systemic" space--not what is actually there, because they are repressed. So you need a different approach to identify them--as they appear as motifs (patterns of behavior), not hard symbols.

My approach to that was to start drawing a map of my dreams, which started out as a few sheets of paper with the more familiar terrain, such as the house I grew up in, the beach at my grandparents cottage, Alpha Control and the Jupiter II launch platform, etc. (Being a Sci-Fi fan, I have a LOT of Sci-Fi symbolism.) Then I used these maps in the psychocartographic grid, placing them relative to one another--and I noticed that a road leading off one sheet of paper would show up on another, even though there may have been some missing pages. Over time, those few sheets were taped together and covered the living room floor, about 10x12 feet across, showing a very detailed continent, seacoast, mountains, valleys... all labeled with what I experienced in those dreams (and dated), and the missing bits filled in through interpolation. That's when I realized the dreamscape is consistent--it's not random, it IS a kind of terrain, that has a life of its own, because things would change. I would build in new buildings, add reservoirs, etc., and change my internal landscape over time, as my consciousness and psyche evolved.

I noticed that the connecting roads, paths, seaways, and flight routes represented the metaphysical connections, based on what they connected to. It turned out that Alpha Control was one of the central complexes in the system, from the old series, Lost in Space, and that the Jupiter II was my symbol of the transcendent function, since it could fly off into the unknown (the premise of the series--lost in the unknown).

So once you've developed the "inter-psyche language" of your personal symbols, you'll start getting additional information from the Other Realm, which can then be expressed as connections on a map. And because you are looking at that map while awake, you begin to remember it in dreams and can begin to consciously navigate because you can PREDICT--which leads to the dream experiences I've documented on this site.

I will tell you the most astounding moment that I had with psychocartography... it was in a dream when I knew where I was on my map, and for the first time looked up--and saw stars in the night sky. And I did not recognize a single constellation, because they weren't the stars "out here." I believe that was my first glimpse into the macrocosm of the cosmic sector, 3D time.
joeyv23 wrote:For the sake of redundancy, I thank you LoneBear and everyone else that contributes here and at CH. You guys have made my life more interesting in an extreme sense in the past couple of years :)
You are most welcome. It's nice to be "moving" again, isn't it?
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Re: Introspection and Internal Honesty

Post by dave432 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:42 pm

LoneBear wrote:
your conscious mind temporarily loses the paths to the concepts effected...as the subconscious just needs some "clock time" to finish the reorganization... you will notice it is considerably easier to think and feel, because all the clutter is gone. And concepts you were struggling with before, become dirt simple.
Next time I have a Dark Night experience, this detailed description will really help because I will be able to explain to my ego what is happening while it is happening. There is another layer of stress added from not knowing what is going on. I already had the basic idea by telling myself I am integrating new information but having some terminology to use takes some of the emotional juice out of the situation, like applying a salve. I think the role of "religion" or some type of system for helping the spiritual seeker is to offer this type of information and I think deep down people know this, and may be why religion has failed.

Is the process of creative incubation similar to the Dark Night but on a lesser scale? You learn new information and after a while a flash may come when you feel like you have compiled various bits of information into a coherent whole and now you comprehend?
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The Magnum Opus and Context

Post by LoneBear » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:21 pm

dave432 wrote:Next time I have a Dark Night experience, this detailed description will really help because I will be able to explain to my ego what is happening while it is happening. There is another layer of stress added from not knowing what is going on.
Also, "not knowing" is what generates fear of the unknown, which is why people fear change--and growth.

I started to consciously walk this path, called the Magnum Opus, some 24 years ago. And I've been through a lot on that path. Those trails left by the ancient philosophers through this virtually unexplored terrain are, for the most part, covered up, overgrown and lost these days, as the context in which those philosophers wrote no longer exists. It is not an easy path; I've made a lot of mistakes, fallen into traps, got stuck at dead ends and at times, ended up completely lost--that darkness of the dark night, where you believe there will never be light, again.

Fortunately, I had the help of a single, reclusive mentor that constantly encouraged me to document what I was going through--both the good and bad--because "it will probably be useful, later in life." And it is my reflections on that journey that I tend to post here. And I suggest that you, and anyone else that wants to pursue an evolution of consciousness, document it. Back then, I just kept a written journal (well, 14 of them!) since there was no Internet and PCs were just coming out. Whatever works for you--but DOCUMENT IT. A quarter of a century later, and I'm still documenting my journey, but a bit more publicly... "sharing my map" as I call it, on here and on RS2. Write, draw maps, symbols... and make sure you DATE IT--with a YEAR, which I often forgot! When you're just a few years from an incident, it is easy to remember the year it took place--but a couple of decades later, after one journal has become a dozen, it gets a lot tougher! (I'm a "scribbler" in the sense that I don't tend to be good about writing in my journal, just any piece of paper that happens to be handy, so I end up with a bunch of loose papers stuck in a folder.)
dave432 wrote:I already had the basic idea by telling myself I am integrating new information but having some terminology to use takes some of the emotional juice out of the situation, like applying a salve. I think the role of "religion" or some type of system for helping the spiritual seeker is to offer this type of information and I think deep down people know this, and may be why religion has failed.
If you really want to understand what religion is about, ignore anything written from about 1AD, on, and focus on the stuff "Before Christ." Look at the pagan religions, gnosticism, hermetics, etc., but understand the context in which you are reading them--society, then, is NOTHING like it is now.

Context, Text and Subtext...

And since I brought up "context" a couple of times, there is something that I have noticed which may be an important factor to consider: many people these days, particularly the under-35 age group, seem to lack the ability to determine both "context" and "subtext" when reading. All they read is "text," (perhaps from "texting" so much) and all they appear to comprehend is that single layer of communication--the words, as written. Having a strong technical writing background (started as editor of the school paper in 5th grade!) I include all three layers in what I present, in papers, posts, comments and blogs--not always as a choice, but because that is the way I learned to communicate.

Text is "what you see, is what you get." For example, "The car is blue."

Context is the set of assumptions being made about a particular concept. It is what is loaded into your mental image, prior to considering something, much like the scenery and props on a stage, before the actors come out and start talking. For example, if I mention "mercury," am I talking about a planet, an element, or a Ford car? That is what context establishes. (Text would be what the actors are saying to one another.)

Subtext is an undertone or hidden meaning in the text, through the use of metaphor, allegory, motif, hyperbole or simile. Subtext will offer hints, suggestions, moods, emotions and other subtleties that are not expressly stated. For example, facial expressions on the actors to determine if what they said was serious, or done in jest. In written text, these are slipped in with the literary techniques mentioned.

The very first sentence I wrote in this reply has context, text and subtext. I always try to keep the context as it was initially defined by the topic (first post of the thread), which is why this is a forum instead of a blog. Topics set the "context." In this case, homo sapiens ethicus--evolving towards the ethical man. That is the stage being set.

The text is what I said--""not knowing" is what generates fear of the unknown, which is why people fear change," which has to be understood within the context. Someone that makes a statement such as, "Well I've never seen gnocci pasta, so you mean I'll be afraid of it?" has taken the text out of context. (A favorite technique with religious preachers and lawyers--the word of the law, versus the intent of the law.)

If you notice, in the quote I omitted the last 2 words, because that text was included as subtext (I've been trying to be a little more explicit, since I realized that people are usually missing subtext, based on the blogs and fora I read). The quoted quote refers to the psychological barrier created by fear. The last two words, "--and growth," uses a conjunction to combine "change" with "growth," because if you cannot change, you cannot grow. The subtext here is essentially reading it backwards--if you want to grow, you will need to change by eliminating fear through "knowing."

Now, how many people caught that? :D

One must always consider context, particularly when reading very old material. Another example; below I refer to "western man." If you consider the context in which it is written, does that include women? If so, why?
dave432 wrote:Is the process of creative incubation similar to the Dark Night but on a lesser scale? You learn new information and after a while a flash may come when you feel like you have compiled various bits of information into a coherent whole and now you comprehend?
Yes, you are correct. What I would recommend for "creative incubation" is called in psychology, "active imagination." Years ago, I read a book by Roberto Assagioli called Psychosynthesis. If you are a western man with an interest in psychology, it is a very informative book. There is a Wikipedia entry on the concept, here: Psychosynthesis.

Active imagination is a technique where, knowing that your mind is going to do a reorganization sometime soon, you "jump the gun" and get a head start on it, by deliberately bringing up the concepts under question, examine them, and make a conscious determination as to their disposition. The technique I used was sitting in the audience at a play (on a stage--something you don't see much of these days), letting the concepts "play out" in front of me, to explain who and what they were, so I could understand why they were there to begin with. And when that play is over, you applaud the actors for telling their story and then they depart--since their work is DONE. There is no judgement or act of repression here. You allow the system to express its "energy" and make the effort to understand what it is trying to tell you, consciously. Once you have done that, play is over and it's time to go home and see what's on next week.

My process was simple enough; I had my "meditation chair," which was a comfortable chair in the living room next to the fireplace, which was a bit darker than the rest of the room but always felt really comfortable. And I would never fall asleep in that chair--I would always go into that half-sleep state, not quite hypnogogia, but almost a hypnotic state where I was still fully aware and conscious, but the barriers were lowered enough (because I was feeling safe and comfortable) to allow unconscious content to make its way up into the subconscious--and sitting on the conscious/subconscious border allowed me to set that "play" in motion. Me, as the audience in the conscious seating, watched the unconscious actors performing the play on the stage of the subconscious. (I used the 3-level model of conscious--subconscious--unconscious from Assagioli's books.) For me, the play would run for about 30-40 minutes, on the average, then I'd "wake" because the play was over and it was time to leave. (Of course, never actually going to sleep.)

And I have found that physical location makes a HUGE difference in meditation ability. You have to find that quiet point, similar to Doctor Who's "zero room," where all the noise and distraction seems to cancel out resulting in a null point. And it is depended on where objects are placed in a room--move something, and that null point also moves. You could probably use Feng Shui to assist, but I have found that people tend to put chairs at these locations, unconsciously, so I just try out the chairs when visiting somewhere to find that spot. Each chair tends to have an "energetic purpose" for its placement.

This process of active imagination is analogous to taking "cat naps" for the psyche, so it doesn't need that long sleep of the dark night to do a major reorganization. I found it to be a very useful technique, that I still practice today.
Keeper of the Troth of Ásgarðr, Moriar prius quam dedecorer.

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