Purpose of Music?

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LoneBear
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Purpose of Music?

Post by LoneBear » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:00 am

In the old films and movies, music was used to manipulate the emotional responses of the audience (usually orchestral). The plots, symbols and motifs dealt with the intellect and the music with the feelings. It made for an entertaining and educational experience.

Today, everywhere I go, 90% of the young people have wires hanging out of their ears with "tunes" blasting their brains, their jaw hanging open and a blank look on their faces. They appear to be dead to the world about them, subsumed by the "music."

I have a question for you musical folks... what is the purpose of this "music?" Why does it appear to be so addictive?
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by infinity » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:21 pm

As a gamer, I think I can speak with some authority here.

Games, like music, offers the opportunity to pick what kind of stimulus I want. Its an easy escape from real life, where I don't have to deal with stuff where I DON'T have a choice. So, why would I want to choose themes, feelings, and thoughts that I need to deal with in real life, when I can have games (or music) that can give me a substitute based on my choice?

It nicely distracts me from emotions I don't want to deal with, by stuffing my insides with emotions / feelings from the music that gives me another sense of aliveness. Does it matter that its fake? Nope, it feels good, its not a crime, and everyone's doing it.

Pretty quickly though, I found I become bored, undriven, and can even start feeling depressed. Feeling disconnected is easy, but in comes the phone texting, messaging, and in my case with games, chatting, to distract me from meaningful relationships and the stuff I have to deal with in them.

Everything's candy-coated, superficial, and abundant.

Instant entertainment, instant stimulus - no delayed gratification. It becomes expected.

Even when working at the office, I listen to music with earphones, and peers of my generation do too.

Not sure if that answers your question?
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by -OM- » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:58 pm

"the music" or music?

Either way, the word "purpose" drives the question toward certain things that Im not exactly sure you are purposefully intending or not. (See what i did there?)

Music reflects the general consciousness of the individual listening to it.
One can just as easily "entrain" someone to positive "rapport"-generating emotions just as easily as addictive, destructive ones.

Im unsure how 90% of youth being "dead" to the world is any different than any other period in the world...

Some will evolve out of it, most won't. And merely be like the 75% of the "adults" that are dead to the world...no different than any other time in history.
Says Who?
Why should anyone believe them?
Where's their proof?
What have they said in the past that one can verify as accurate?
What is the temporal process, In Detail, needed so that I or another can subjectively experience and recreate what is claimed?

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by infinity » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:15 am

Oh I think there's a huge difference OM, because the way a lot of music is used by young people today is as an artificial stimulation. If you take other periods of time, people didn't do that nearly as much - people dealt with "real life" in a much more continuous manner. Now, whenever you are about to do something that doesn't stimulate you, you can just pop in earphones and let the music provide a bit of a buzz at least.

If there's one thing we need more of in this world, is to learn to be silent and discover the "sacred" things in the silence. I think that such a silence was much more proliferant in previous times than it is today.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Ilkka » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:58 am

I used to listen Marilyn Manson alot when I was in late teens and early twentys so Lonebear instantly reminded me of this one song "Marilyn Manson - Dried up, tied and dead to the world". You should listen or read the lyrics. This is one of the songs that might effect destructively on youths so it invokes negative emotions on the listener, if one lets them to do so that is or if one lets their emotions to control them enough to actually act on them, which is another thing entirely.

But yeah music still effects on emotions on "controlling" or invoking level (or in some other very subtle level which I dont have correct word/term in my vocabulary). I know this from firsthand experience when I was on psychedelics and made an observation once on these certain songs, or pieces of music since there was no singing in them. I think I once made a post of it in this site.
-OM- wrote:Im unsure how 90% of youth being "dead" to the world is any different than any other period in the world...

Some will evolve out of it, most won't. And merely be like the 75% of the "adults" that are dead to the world...no different than any other time in history.
I think like this too, only the numbers have grown, but the percentages have not.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by PeacefulMe » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:00 am

I'm trying to understand music as well. I've been reading about Solfeggio Frequencies and how they have been lost to civilization. But one of the authors that I follow, working with the Angelic Realm, has been working with the lost tones of the Solfeggio. It's amazing to listen to some of it as it will have an affect on you. There is one in particular that is tuned to the frequency of the heart and when I first listened to it, it brought tears to my eyes immediately, and I can't explain why. Does anyone know anything about these frequencies? From what I've read, music these days isn't tuned to correct frequency…It should be 444hz vs. whatever it is. Instead, the music industry is tuning it all to a lower frequency. But I'd like to understand this more.

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by infinity » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:29 am

Thanks for sharing that Peaceful,

I understand why some people assess music as they do - e.g. that it should be a certain frequency - but I also believe that some of these things are misunderstood. Frequencies themselves aren't as important. There are many things to consider. Ratio is one such thing. If you take the ratios of frequency differentiation in music, it will generally have a much bigger impact on one than any frequency by itself. (One such positive application can be binaural sounds, like those made by the Monroe Institute in the study of consciousness).

Think of it like a laser. The color green is harmless when you look at a green light. But its a frequency in a visible range of light. However, if you change the ratio and concentration, using that same "green color" frequency, and focus it into an intensity of what can be called a laser - you can get your retinas damaged by looking at such a light. The frequency of color (green) has nothing to do with it on its own. That same frequency is used in night-vision to make it easier for a person to distinguish shades, shapes, and movement. The light is shown to the user of the night-vision goggles in a green frequency because the eye is generally more sensitive to that than e.g. red or blue. Same frequency, used for very different things, some helpful, some harmful.

I believe music can be a powerful emotional tool for scientific reasons, but also for psychological ones. For instance, if I listen to uplifting heavy rock / metal, I have sometimes found it easier to unlock a determination in me, or to release some frustration - someone else is doing the screaming for me, but its just as effective as if I did it myself. But to another person, the SAME heavy music will make them tense and irritated. You see, my association with the music (symbolism?) is MUCH different from the other person. They cannot benefit from that form of music as an emotional tool because of their chosen associations with it.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by -OM- » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:19 pm

Let's clarify some of the presuppositions being made in the thread:

- Music predates movies and tv by quite a bit of time in known human history...

- The portable audio device ie "Walkman/Ipod" has been around for almost 40 years. That's nearly half of the time that tv has been commercially available.

- Calling music an "artificial" stimulant seems ironically short-sighted. If anything, it is THE original "artificial" stimulant, if one is to use the word "artificial" at all.
I'm hard pressed to find anytime in human history when music wasn't "purposefully" used to generate "certain" feelings.
Music has always been used by "good" and "evil" alike in "spiritual" and common day ceremonies to invoke awe, entertainment, joy, sadness, etc.

- There seems to be a constant underlying supposition in threads here, that "life was better in the (old) times"
However, the oft-referenced research of Graves, Wilber, Hawkins, etc shows that the totality of human consciousness is increasing, not getting worse as is often implied. Meaning that however small the percentages are, more people overall are reaching higher "memes","value-systems", "levels of consciousness" etc than ever before.

-The "masses" are always going to be the "masses" until they aren't... Meaning those of lower tier memes/levels of consciousness have always vastly outnumbered the higher value-systems. So if one is to take a snapshot of any everyday observation of "people", they are nearly always going to see the dumbed-down, slavery mindset portion of humanity. Again, the above mentioned research still shows overall that the mean of humanity has increased in consciousness.
If one lives in a country/society/sub-set culture that is primarily Red meme focused, one can expect to see mostly Red meme-d peopled.
Same with blue, and orange.

- Distraction to silence isn't something new or different to humanity. In the "olden" days, one could spend all day plowing the fields, (and consequently never encountering any new idea outside of one's own family unit/village) with the mind chattering away with thoughts of making it thru the winter; humming a bard's tune; worrying if the "Gods/God" were displeased with you for some reason, etc

Again, music can and has been used as a tool to both quiet/focus and disturb the mind alike.
Says Who?
Why should anyone believe them?
Where's their proof?
What have they said in the past that one can verify as accurate?
What is the temporal process, In Detail, needed so that I or another can subjectively experience and recreate what is claimed?

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by PeacefulMe » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:07 pm

There is something to music, and I think it is important. But I'm still learning and trying to understand it…along with everything that I'm learning here on Antiquatis and ConsciousHugs :D The author that I mentioned in my previous post is GW Hardin. He is a mathematician and he breaks down the Solfeggio frequencies using math and geometry. It's rather interesting and amazing to see how things all fit together this way. He even touches upon the 3, 6, 9 that Tesla had spoke of unlocking the key to the Universe, or something to that affect. I think frequency is important as even the Earth has a specific frequency, the Schumann Resonance, or the heart beat of the planet. And what has been studied is that this frequency has been climbing. Yet, all of our music is still attuned to A440 hz and has never changed since it was accepted back in the early 1900's. Shouldn't we attune to a higher frequency to remain in harmony with the planet? What Hardin also speaks of is how these frequencies also affect our DNA. Another interesting thing I've come across from reading Hardin's work is how some scientist, John Hutchison, used specific frequencies to heal the Gulf of Mexico after the BP oil spill. Think about it…music to heal. I know that when I go for Reiki, those singing bowls are amazing. They resonate throughout my entire body to align my energy…I feel it.

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by browndwarf » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:49 am

music is sacred to me, something that can stimulate a feeling or emotion, seems that the artistry of music are attuned to the natural world, since birth, music is one thing that we can learn even without a teacher. we learn the highs and lows, the rhythmic repetitions, the melody, have you heard the story of the researcher who have slowed down the cricket's ringing only to hear music in the end, something like singing voices...

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by LoneBear » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:40 am

-OM- wrote:If anything, it is THE original "artificial" stimulant, if one is to use the word "artificial" at all.
This seems to sum up my question--why has music become a "stimulant"? (Which is a good choice of word, given it acts just like other stimulants, including the withdrawal).

I did some research and it appears that music (that one enjoys) triggers a dopamine response in the brain, which gives the feeling of pleasure. That feeling induces a desire to repeat the process. Each iteration of the loop reinforces the loop, until you become addicted. (See: Researchers show why music is so addictive)

This article, along with several others that I've read, also indicate that it's the anticipation that creates the addiction, once the pattern has been reinforced: "This area is involved in expectations based on previous experiences and leads to anticipation. This suggests that thinking about and anticipating that next note can lead to dopamine release in the most powerfully addictive systems of the brain."

Having just done a study on the brain and it's pattern-matching abilities, I recall clearly that the primary purpose of the bulk of the brain, the neocortex, is to predict future events, so you have a planned course of action to assist in survival situations. Anticipation is a "prediction" of a successful survival situation. Once you are locked into a repeating pattern, it isolates your world view and you really don't need to use any more of that neocortex function--everything you need "for survival" is right in that closed loop.

Tobacco addiction requires cigarettes, drug addiction it's cocaine, and music addiction--technology. That is, if you can still refer to it as "music..." Zbikowski states, “The simple fact is that ‘music’ here means ‘that which is produced for consumption through recordings and intended to be in isolation from others. It doesn’t take much reflection at all to realize that this is a rather unusual definition of music, or musical practice. Emotional responses are just one part of the picture.”

I'm reminded of a Star Trek, The Next Generation episode called, "The Game", where the Enterprise was taken over by an iPod-like device that created a similar, addictive pattern for the user--eventually sapping them of rational analysis and free will.

So I can probably infer that the blank looks with the jaws hanging open is just the "dopamine loop" running, consuming the brain's processing power (it isn't a very fast CPU to begin with).

To me, this looks more like subliminal exploitation (a kind of neuro-musical programming), than an accident, or just "good music." And curiously enough, it fits in quite well with Kurzweil's vision (and many other NWO "visionaries") of the future--turning man into a cyborg, through technology addiction.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Ilkka » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:11 am

Good point there LB.

I totally agree with you and know what you mean, from firsthand experience. I remember what it was like to listen good music on psychedelics the psybient and other psychedelic music was awesome and felt very good to listen to. Also when I stopped using them drugs I still can get more pleasure from music than I used to. I remember to having been able to release dopamine at will also, but just a little bit, still can do it too.

Conclusion, most of the people are just junkies for music. Great! Lets get high on some "Pink Floyd - Echoes" song which is very good maybe the best to listen on psychedelics. My friend on drugs said that "you dont need drugs to enjoy Pink Floyd, you need Pink Floyd to enjoy drugs", maybe it was quote from someone else I dont know, but it makes sense.

I know I can speak only for myself when I tell you that I think one can "shut down" their ability to get on high from their favourite music, so maybe there is still hope for the people. I listen to music even this moment but it has no effect on me, maybe I'm so getting used to it that I dont notice the effect any longer I dont know :D.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Lotus » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:53 pm

LoneBear wrote: So I can probably infer that the blank looks with the jaws hanging open is just the "dopamine loop" running, consuming the brain's processing power (it isn't a very fast CPU to begin with).
LoneBear wrote:To me, this looks more like subliminal exploitation (a kind of neuro-musical programming), than an accident, or just "good music." And curiously enough, it fits in quite well with Kurzweil's vision (and many other NWO "visionaries") of the future--turning man into a cyborg, through technology addiction.
There must be more to it than just a "dopamine loop". My experience is that when repeating something that is pleasurable, it has diminishing returns in how enjoyable it is, until it is no longer enjoyable. One can prevent that from happening by not repeatedly indulging in the thing. What is the thing that causes the craving for that next rush of dopamine? What makes it actually addictive rather than just enjoyable?
Ilkka wrote: I know I can speak only for myself when I tell you that I think one can "shut down" their ability to get on high from their favourite music, so maybe there is still hope for the people. I listen to music even this moment but it has no effect on me, maybe I'm so getting used to it that I dont notice the effect any longer I dont know :D.
Ilkka, what do you mean by "shut down" your ability to get high? You mean it is no longer pleasurable? Could you explain it more for me?

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Ilkka » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Lotus wrote:
Ilkka wrote: I know I can speak only for myself when I tell you that I think one can "shut down" their ability to get on high from their favourite music, so maybe there is still hope for the people. I listen to music even this moment but it has no effect on me, maybe I'm so getting used to it that I dont notice the effect any longer I dont know :D.
Ilkka, what do you mean by "shut down" your ability to get high? You mean it is no longer pleasurable? Could you explain it more for me?
Yea, I mean that one can treat/think the music just as an "background noise" and go into thoughts more deeply. Ambient music is the best for this sort of thing, one can go into trance even when listening ambient music. But yea I agree that there must be something else than just the high that people get from it. "Shut down" is quite wrongly put there I see sorry about that, I have alot going on my mind when I'm writing something and sometimes it is very difficult to find proper terms for certain things. As most of you know I am from another country and therefore dont have knowledge of all of the english words unfortunately, but am trying to find proper terms or atleast closest ones.

I think this way music will render into neutral of being pleasurable. Also this "background noise" way of thinking may not be the only way so there might be more ways. Now I'm getting the idea of treating music as frequency that you have tuned in and when you tune yourself out of it, but still listening it wont be pleasurable as it was a minute ago, not sure if this works but it might. It is where you are focused on that is the key here, if you focus on the music and let it take you with it then you enjoy it, but maybe its not the music that you enjoy but yourself, tuned in to that "specific frequency". This is me thinking and writing here. Maybe I'm on to something here.
Lotus wrote:My experience is that when repeating something that is pleasurable, it has diminishing returns in how enjoyable it is, until it is no longer enjoyable.
I just gotta say I feel the same way. I know this thing from psychedelic usage that I had few years ago. Its the same thing, the same rollercoaster ride again and again. I just got bored to the repetition of it and moved on. Saying "Been there done that" "What comes around, goes around" and so on. Also this last time I took 2C-P (psychedelic similar to mescaline) I took bigger dose that others use it 20 mg, (5 mg is quite normal dose) so mine was quite an overdose that was very nice at first, but in the end there is nausea, bad headache and vomiting. I know where to get psychedelics thought, but I dont bother to go and buy them anylonger, I see no point in using them now, maybe after I choose to become a shaman (which doesnt interest me at all at this point).

But this thing goes with music aswell, I have listened many types of music and some enjoyed to certain extent and then stopped listening them genres. Like metal and rock, now I am listening psychedelic and ambient, there is progressive also but not so much of it though. I like to "visit" old favourites from time to time. Just as I liked to play certain games that were very addictive, but I think I have had quite enough of them now, also I revisited them as well. Like I use to watch certain good movies again, nowadays its for learning purposes, the ones I put onto rewatch list. The ones that dont have anything to offer but utter bulldung I try to forget very fast, as in most of the action movies these days, horror movies I dont even watch they have nothing to offer to me.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by dave432 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:05 am

I have wondered about this topic as well over the years.

Now that I have been learning some RS concepts, I have a different way of approaching this. I used to think the repetitive beats in modern techno sound (I can't call it music because there is no melody - just a beat. A song's copywrite is for the melody, not the rhythm or the arrangement) were a type of brainwashing to program aggressiveness and left it at that.

A computer has no temporal link so the techno dance sounds that come from them have no anima, no soul, so the effect would seem to be on the brain alone - the anima is bypassed altogether. The head banging repetitive beats create an impression in me of banging the message into the listeners brain to the exclusion of all other messages, especially while wearing headphones.

A repetitive beat is so biologically primal and I am always affected positively when I hear Native American drumming, but the drummers, singers and dancers are all in tune with the cosmic sector, so the sounds come to life. Sometimes I think they even break through beyond space and time. The same beat coming from computers though is only irritating. The purpose of the modern sounds, then, seems to be to program aggression into the brain and get the listener to completely ignore their temporal half.

The information about dopamine loops is completely new to me and is something I want to learn more about. The mention of the brain predicting future events reminds me of something someone wrote about how music rolls the past, present and future all into one. While we are listening to music, we are in the present but simultaneously remembering how the verse and chorus sound, which gives us a link to the past. Then we are anticipating the verses and chorus to repeat in the near future. All this is happening in the current moment.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by LoneBear » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:35 pm

I recall the first "Space Invaders" game... the sound effects were designed to mimic the human heartbeat, so as the situation got more critical, the beat would go faster and your pulse would follow, kicking in the survival "fight or flee" response. As they say, that made victory all the more "sweet" (accomplishment of the power process). That's one of the reasons the game was so popular. And the old machines had those big, bass speakers for the proper effect.

I had not considered the anima aspect--I suspect you are correct there. A live performance is qualitatively different than a recorded version, as though a person's bioenergy is actually transmitted through the instrument they are playing. May be something along the lines of the keris concept, where a person literally puts their soul into their music.

Interesting observation about how music combines the past, present and future--one of the things I found with the RS concepts is that "series" and "parallel" are reciprocals; verbal communication is serial and music tends to be parallel, which is why you get that temporal combination. It has me wondering now about how the mind sorts out language versus music, internally, and the sections of the brain that process it.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by dave432 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:00 am

LoneBear wrote: A live performance is qualitatively different than a recorded version, as though a person's bioenergy is actually transmitted through the instrument they are playing. May be something along the lines of the keris concept, where a person literally puts their soul into their music.
You know how someone says something to you and you hold onto it for years because you know how important it is to you even though you cannot make make any sense of it? This happened to me the other day. While reading, I had the thought that a book can be a kind of opening to the cosmic sector. I knew the author was somewhere in space but it didn't matter where because we were both currently adjacent in time, as if the author could temporally assist me to understand if I could "tune in" to her in 3D time. If not, then the words are the material atoms in the ink and that's all. The book functioned as a material object where the two of us could temporally meet.

My moment of realization may have been neurons connecting because I knew the words for years (serial) but did not have the understanding, which I assume was waiting in time; I wasn't yet hearing the parallel music for me to build a bridge in the brain. Once the bridge was built, the understanding became accessible. I suppose we build the bridges through study.

So I think a musical instrument serves the same purpose. The artist plays and can be only a few feet from you, but the both of you are still separated in space - a barrier. The instrument is the material opening where the two of you can meet in time and share an experience. I wonder if the air pressure of sound waves is really the portal, but without the instrument the waves aren't there, so the instrument really seems to be the material symbol required for the musician to invite us into his or her temporal landscape.

Seemingly, not all artists are actually tuned in to the cosmic sector, so the work of art may be more mechanical than soulful - the difference between a painting and a picture suitable for framing simply because the colors match the couch, you know, the "artwork" we see in the store that was painted by maybe dozens of people; one person does the dock, another the clouds, another the sea and another the tall ship.

I wonder if mp3s are actually a barrier to the cosmic sector as well. The old vinyl seems to be a better way "in," next to hearing music live. Cassettes sound so much better than digitally compressed audio files to me.
LoneBear wrote: ...one of the things I found with the RS concepts is that "series" and "parallel" are reciprocals; verbal communication is serial and music tends to be parallel, which is why you get that temporal combination. It has me wondering now about how the mind sorts out language versus music, internally, and the sections of the brain that process it.
This is amazing and I never thought about this before. I bet the answer would lead to new forms of healing. Tones might be able to heal the shadow double of the material body, then after a while the body responds in space.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Obzistian » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:43 pm

LoneBear wrote:
"I had not considered the anima aspect--I suspect you are correct there. A live performance is qualitatively different than a recorded version, as though a person's bioenergy is actually transmitted through the instrument they are playing. May be something along the lines of the keris concept, where a person literally puts their soul into their music.

Interesting observation about how music combines the past, present and future--one of the things I found with the RS concepts is that "series" and "parallel" are reciprocals; verbal communication is serial and music tends to be parallel, which is why you get that temporal combination. It has me wondering now about how the mind sorts out language versus music, internally, and the sections of the brain that process it."

I have a perfect example of this from my life:

Back in 1997, I had a specific song 'playing' in my head (Billy Joel - Piano Man) while working.
I 'spilled' some gas(probably from a wobble) onto a hot pressure washing machine.
Which caught fire, I was immediately able to put it out, circumventing fight/flight response
and keep conscious control of the situation, it didn't even make me flinch.
The message I got from that aspect actually went so far as to ignite matter on this 'side'.
That song has since been associated with that event, like an icon that opens both memory
and sensation when heard.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Ilkka » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:43 pm

LoneBear wrote:where a person literally puts their soul into their music.
I was thinking it like this. In Daniel's latest paper "Homo Sapiens Ethicus" there is picture in page 5 which depicts material and cosmic human body. So the cosmic part is like "aura" in material side and when one holds musical instrument it is inside this "aura"(soul). All of you probably know what I mean here now. I think that if music affects matter it must have an equal effect on anti-matter aswell. All music from electrical apparatuses therefore automatically lack the "soul", so there can be no soul in it, only live instruments played by real people have the soul in their music. Then there is the mood of the player if on a good mood he would give listeners good "vibes" aswell.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by LoneBear » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:56 am

dave432 wrote:I wonder if mp3s are actually a barrier to the cosmic sector as well. The old vinyl seems to be a better way "in," next to hearing music live. Cassettes sound so much better than digitally compressed audio files to me.
Vinyl and magnetic tape are analog recording media; they reproduce a waveform true-to-form. MP3s (and other formats) are digital, and only approximate a waveform to some degree of precision. This same situation has happened with most things we use, from television (old TVs were analog sweep; LCD/plasma are digital pixel) and even power generation (magnetic generators are analog, modern switching and power converters are digital, approximating a sine wave).

True-to-form waves have the standard, integer-based harmonics associated with them. Approximations do not--they break down into a series of sine waves that add up to the approximation, so you get harmonics all over the spectrum (line noise). This was a big problem with the early inverters for solar power use, that used square waves to drive a transformer--they would produce so much noise on the wires, most electronic equipment could not work properly; televisions would have all sorts of little dot patterns running across them from the harmonics filtering through to the tube grids.

So it may be more of a situation of scrambling the way 'in' to the Cosmic sector, resulting in blockage.

And I find these "ear buds" interesting devices... plugged in to the head 180 degrees apart from the pineal, such that stereo mixes can produce all sorts of interesting effects, right there in the middle of the brain--that bit that connects the body to the soul. I can't think of a single situation in Nature that uses a headset--sound comes from all directions.
dave432 wrote:This is amazing and I never thought about this before. I bet the answer would lead to new forms of healing. Tones might be able to heal the shadow double of the material body, then after a while the body responds in space.
There are plant studies on the effects of music and plant growth/health. As I recall, plants grow the best to classical music.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by dave432 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:25 am

LoneBear wrote: Vinyl and magnetic tape are analog recording media; they reproduce a waveform true-to-form. MP3s (and other formats) are digital, and only approximate a waveform to some degree of precision.
Thank you so much for saying that because I have believed this to be true for years, but, "all things technical" not being my strong suit, I have tried to explain this to people without being able to back it up with much. I usually say that analog recordings are an actual reproduction of the sound, and we are hearing a continuous wave as opposed to a digital approximation -- like taking audio snapshots of the event and hearing them played back in succession.

There was a graphic in an audio magazine once that I re-draw for people when this topic comes up (usually initiated by me) with a smooth, curved line for the analog wave and a dotted, curved line for the digital. Then I say, with the dotted line digital method we are missing what is between the lines. Can you all guess what the replies are like?

Yes, but mp3s are so convenient. CDs take up too much space.
There are no annoying scratches (only us "older" folks use that one).
Do you realize I have every song I've ever heard in my life right here in my pocket? Then I reply, not prenatal? Yes, that too!

But even more confusing to me is that if the universe is quantized, aren't all waveforms digital?

LoneBear wrote: True-to-form waves have the standard, integer-based harmonics associated with them. Approximations do not--they break down into a series of sine waves that add up to the approximation, so you get harmonics all over the spectrum (line noise).
Would you direct me to where I can learn more about this area of study because this is directly related to my study of musical ratios? What you say seems to suggest the reason why our current musical tuning method is not in harmony with (or would resonance be a better term?) bioenergy. The tuning system we use, and that we all grew up with, is based on the 12th root of 2, which is a musical distance of about 1.059..... between each note of the chromatic scale. If, instead, the notes are tuned to ratios, then there is an exact distance between the notes. For example, an A note tuned to 432 Hz, and then raised by a 3/2 perfect fifth (1.5 decimal equivalent) would give you an E648 Hz (432 X 1.5 = 648). With the 12th root of 2 system (called equal temperament) there are no exact frequencies at all and from what you've said, there also does not seem to be a natural harmonic series.
LoneBear wrote:
And I find these "ear buds" interesting devices... plugged in to the head 180 degrees apart from the pineal, such that stereo mixes can produce all sorts of interesting effects, right there in the middle of the brain--that bit that connects the body to the soul. I can't think of a single situation in Nature that uses a headset--sound comes from all directions.
There are binaural recordings available but I have not heard them yet, where you hear all around the head not just from two sides -- another area I want to explore. I actually use headphones more often than I used too because I can hear dialogue more clearly in movies and stereo effects in the mix can be heard that are often missed with speakers.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by Arcelius » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:20 pm

dave432 wrote:
LoneBear wrote: Vinyl and magnetic tape are analog recording media; they reproduce a waveform true-to-form. MP3s (and other formats) are digital, and only approximate a waveform to some degree of precision.
Thank you so much for saying that because I have believed this to be true for years, but, "all things technical" not being my strong suit, I have tried to explain this to people without being able to back it up with much. I usually say that analog recordings are an actual reproduction of the sound, and we are hearing a continuous wave as opposed to a digital approximation -- like taking audio snapshots of the event and hearing them played back in succession.
It depends upon the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter). This is the piece of equipment that interprets the digital recording and converts it back to analog sounds. There is a large variation in the quality of this specific piece of equipment. Most of them are very cheaply done. However, more expensive ones with much higher quality are also available where the resulting wave forms are virtually identical (i.e. to an analog recording).

With analog recording, they are also approximations to the original sounds. Better recordings will give better approximations until they are virtually identical. However, with analog recordings and media, a replay of the media results in a degradation of the recording itself. With digital, the recording remains the same regardless of how many times it is played or how many times it is copied.
dave432 wrote:Yes, but mp3s are so convenient. CDs take up too much space.
CDs are a digital and not analog recording medium.
dave432 wrote:There are no annoying scratches (only us "older" folks use that one).
For some digital media, that applies as well such as with CDs and DVDs (even hard drives). Unfortunately, when the digital media is scratched, it just doesn't play that part (at best) or perhaps stops playing entirely.
dave432 wrote:But even more confusing to me is that if the universe is quantized, aren't all waveforms digital?
Yes, the universe is very discrete :roll: .

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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by LoneBear » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:12 am

dave432 wrote:But even more confusing to me is that if the universe is quantized, aren't all waveforms digital?
Gopi and I have discussed this on many occasions and found that the "local" aspect of motion is always quantized (digital), but the nonlocal aspect tends to be continuous (analog). It makes for problems with computer simulation because you'd need an analog computer to do the nonlocal half of the simulation.

It has come up a number of times in the RS photon structure, where people have argued if it should be a square wave, a triangle wave, or a sine. What I found out with RS2 is that it depends on where you take the measurement.

Anything localized in the frame of the observer is discrete and quantized--digital. That would be stuff outside the time region. The time region, itself, is more like a hall of mirrors because of the "growth measure" involved... it looks like layers that you sum up to get a result. This equates to the mathematical concept of "series expansion" that gives continuous/analog motion.

A square wave can be produced by the series: sin(angle) + sin(3*angle)/3 + sin(5*angle)/5 + sin(7*angle)/7 + ... out to infinity, which indicates that the square wave will have all of these harmonics, when produced by a flipping a digital switch on and off. In the RS, it is seldom "one or the other"--it is usually "both."
dave432 wrote:Would you direct me to where I can learn more about this area of study because this is directly related to my study of musical ratios?
I ran into the problem when working with solar power inverters. The older ones were basically square waves that were run through a transformer, which produced massive interference in electrical equipment. The closer they approximated a sine wave, the less interference there was. The "true sine wave" inverters aren't still a true sine wave, but what they ended up doing is to put dampening on each of the successive steps to create a smooth, electrical transition. The wave still wiggles a bit, but it is so small it can hardly be measured--and no more big stair-step ramps.
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by dave432 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:48 pm

Arcelius wrote:
dave432 wrote:Yes, but mp3s are so convenient. CDs take up too much space.
CDs are a digital and not analog recording medium.
Actually, I was trying to convey "space" as in taking up physical storage space on a wall, for example, as opposed to digital space. I was saying that convenience of digitally stored music seems to be of greater value to most than sound quality.

Arcelius wrote:
dave432 wrote:There are no annoying scratches (only us "older" folks use that one).
For some digital media, that applies as well such as with CDs and DVDs (even hard drives). Unfortunately, when the digital media is scratched, it just doesn't play that part (at best) or perhaps stops playing entirely.
I hear you, there. I was trying to watch a scratched DVD from the library and had to miss a significant portion. One of the main objections I hear when proposing analog as having better sound quality than digital is that albums have too many scratches and magnetic tape too much hiss as background noise. On those two points, and the storage space issue, the digital route seems to be preferred. Sound quality seems to be a non-issue out there today.
Arcelius wrote:
dave432 wrote:But even more confusing to me is that if the universe is quantized, aren't all waveforms digital?
Yes, the universe is very discrete :roll: .
I hope these things become more clear as I keep integrating more RS concepts. :?
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Re: Purpose of Music?

Post by LoneBear » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:06 am

Arcelius wrote:
dave432 wrote:But even more confusing to me is that if the universe is quantized, aren't all waveforms digital?
Yes, the universe is very discrete :roll: .
Larson's concept is that the universe is nothing but motion (speeds); it is our consciousness that applies the interpretation of that speed into concepts such as digital (local, particle) or analog (nonlocal, field).

The problem occurs when we use mechanical means to produce sound. If you run a square wave into a speaker, put a microphone in front and look at the waveform on a scope, it isn't a square wave. The speaker cannot respond to the rise/fall times of the wave fast enough, so it converts the digital to analog because of mechanical inefficiency. (The shape of the wave will change depending on frequency and the response time of the speaker. Low frequencies will be closer to a square wave, then it will smooth out to a sine--while losing amplitude--they will eventually flatline when the frequency is too high for the speaker to respond to.)

What you hear with your ears will always be a digital interpretation because the cochlea fires neurons for processing--packets. It is a local space-to-space connection. However, if you "listen with your soul," you'll get the analog version, as the information is being transmitted over time, not space, as a nonlocal field effect. And I've noticed that recordings only do the former, not the latter--which requires life at the source.
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