UFO-related

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
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Re: UFO-related

Post by Starlight* » Thu May 03, 2007 9:53 pm

(addition made)

It is possible that some anomoly did appear in the air. What are the chances of it reappearing? Even the possibility of these “sensationalist” mixing some real footage with fake ones.

LB states he saw one (glowing spheres) in 2001; we are in 2007. So what are the chances of one grabbing a camera and filming it or seeing another one later. And is that all one sees within the post?


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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Fri May 04, 2007 6:18 am

Starlight* wrote:It is possible that some anomoly did appear in the air. What are the chances of it reappearing?
The balloons and balloon kites are very popular around Mexico city. If the perpetrators use the same design or same location, then it is easier to identify the next time.
Starlight* wrote:Even the possibility of these “sensationalist” mixing some real footage with fake ones.
All the footage is "real". However, only about 10% of their footage, if it is not too blurry, is difficult to explain.
Starlight* wrote:LB states he saw one (glowing spheres) in 2001; we are in 2007.
Not sure what you are suggesting.
Starlight* wrote:So what are the chances of one grabbing a camera and filming it or seeing another one later.
The nature of these videos/photos is that there is not enough resolution to say if the captures objects are identical, only similar. The mind then can make whatever leap it wants. Not only do a lot of cameras image the shape of their aperture at high zoom, they also distort the object in other ways like color flickering. So a picture of a star or a different star look the same, but it is claimed that they are UFOs. But these people do not care to understand what they are seeing because of a vested interest in creating UFOs. Jose Escamilla (Roswell Rods) and David Serada (NASA UV-video tether photage ) are two victims of not understanding photo equipment.
Starlight* wrote:And is that all one sees?
What one sees, as far as what can be explained of it, is an interpretation of an experience. What limits the seeing depends on what can be ascertained at any moment. Interpretation always changes. The incident is always available to compare with prior and new experience, to synthesize a more suitable, new interpretation for oneself or others.

As always, any deep meaning associated with the object is subjective. So what happens is out of those attributes that can be ascertained (for an offered or personal interpretation), the ones actually selected for interpretation are those that tend to reinforce existing values. That's just bias at work. It is an overriding influence which is not good or bad, it's human nature. The "wise" investigator or a methodical investigator (like a scientist) knows when this bias is at work and will take that into consideration when creating a more objective depiction of what was seen.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sun May 06, 2007 7:55 pm

I thought this thing was interesting:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2 ... heme=light

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Mon May 07, 2007 6:25 pm

They are interesting photographs, to say the least. Hard to believe that they are "real", however. The design is somewhat unique in the UFO arena, as is all the writing on the underside (which looks like Centauri script from B5). I'd love to see a clearer picture of the writing to see what the font actually is, as well as the quadrated symbol that seems to be used heavily on every section.

Can't determine a size, since there is no way to determine how far away it is. The details seem rather clear to be very far off, though.
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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Mon May 07, 2007 6:48 pm

LoneBear wrote:They are interesting photographs, to say the least. Hard to believe that they are "real", however. The design is somewhat unique in the UFO arena, as is all the writing on the underside (which looks like Centauri script from B5). I'd love to see a clearer picture of the writing to see what the font actually is, as well as the quadrated symbol that seems to be used heavily on every section.

Can't determine a size, since there is no way to determine how far away it is. The details seem rather clear to be very far off, though.
"Chad" the pictures submitter said it was "very large".. But it looks like a 5-8' model to me. The people in abovetopsecret.com are claiming "fake" because of the EXIF info containing the "photoshop elements" string. But the C2C webmaster probably just used that to reduce the original pics to fit in the window. Webmaster probably also increased the JPEG compression. The writing has been said to look like Klingon or Japanese katakana (probably due to the "Fu" character).
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/klingon.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana

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Re: UFO-related

Post by Alluvion » Tue May 08, 2007 4:18 pm

both images are faked, though the first one seems to be an actual model - the second one is defiantely a digital addition.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Tue May 08, 2007 10:28 pm

Alluvion wrote:both images are faked, though the first one seems to be an actual model - the second one is defiantely a digital addition.
The 2nd one, the spaceship "Jupiter II" from Lost in Space, is an 18" model, with the photo digitally enhanced to make it not look like a model hanging from fishing line. 2 "AA" batteries required for rotor lights.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by Gopi » Wed May 09, 2007 8:46 am

Ok, maybe I am missing something... but what is the point of this thread? There is a LOT of UFO material out there, and studying them to decide the fake ones from the real ones would be particularly tricky nowadays.

Is this an attempt at figuring out how to differentiate between the two?
It is time.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by Starlight* » Wed May 09, 2007 9:24 am

Great UFO shots, fake or not.

I was wondering LB what is at the bottom left side of the picture? A UFO setup?


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Re: UFO-related

Post by Alluvion » Wed May 09, 2007 11:12 pm

i don't think its that tricky gopi - for me, i've learned how to see things which have passed through digital processes because of all my design education with exposure to all the tricks of software/hardware/manipulations etc - i am a skeptic also, so that bias should be put forth, but I am a skeptic in light of, like many here, desperately *wanting* for these experiences. I think being incredibly critical is very important - its not enough for me to see a video with something in it that either plays into preconceptions or is trying to pull some slight-of-hand trick - to me the critical point of examination would end up right where an intelligent being would consider such an act of 'exposure'. For the most part I see components to these video's that make them fall apart easily - digital discrepency, light, texture, resolution, etc - the graphic realm is, now adays, hardly a pure medium - it is in fact more virtual than almost anything else. I think that perhaps I wan't proof, but that would suggest I want to see someone present me with what I expect - but I am finding that within me is a sincere interest in the experience of contact and fantastic creation that seeks to satisfy that fantasy in some way is not nearly good enough, nor should it be touted as 'real' and 'absolute' to others.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Thu May 10, 2007 12:13 pm

Alluvion wrote:i don't think its that tricky gopi - for me, i've learned how to see things which have passed through digital processes because of all my design education with exposure to all the tricks of software/hardware/manipulations etc - i am a skeptic also, so that bias should be put forth, but I am a skeptic in light of, like many here, desperately *wanting* for these experiences.
I guess the question becomes... "would you recognize a REAL picture, if you saw one?" Or is EVERYTHING just written off as a model or CGI?

You can only have an 'experience' if you accept the experience for what it is.

Regarding those clear UFO pictures... for me, it's a 50/50 probability that they are real. There are many people experimenting with free energy and anti-gravity all over the world these days. Could be a model that is actually in flight.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Thu May 10, 2007 6:13 pm

alluvion wrote:I think that perhaps I wan't proof, but that would suggest I want to see someone present me with what I expect - but I am finding that within me is a sincere interest in the experience of contact and fantastic creation that seeks to satisfy that fantasy in some way is not nearly good enough, nor should it be touted as 'real' and 'absolute' to others.
I agree with this. Truth is always more powerful and interesting than fiction. When fiction is presented as truth, that is in a would-be objective manner, everyone involved loses. However, I think everyone has a built in bullshit detector, because anyone can always find their own honesty with regards to anything they can offer (as truth) or are offered (as truth).
lonebear wrote:I guess the question becomes... "would you recognize a REAL picture, if you saw one?" Or is EVERYTHING just written off as a model or CGI?
I think discrimination, discernment and consciousness (be it cognitive capacity or affective capacity) are inseperable. You always "see" what you are prepared to "see", nothing more or less. The UFOs offer good challenges to our ability to discern what is, from the standpoint of we think we already know. And if a person wants to see or to experience something, they should make it conscious, and ask themselves why, otherwise that will always hold influence over what is actually there. It really is a type of perversion to describe something, as if it were an objective interpretation, when that something is based on one's own bias. Yet it happens all the time and holds us back.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sun May 20, 2007 5:42 pm

Gopi wrote:Ok, maybe I am missing something... but what is the point of this thread?
One of the points was to just put all "UFO"-related posts in one thread.
Gopi wrote:There is a LOT of UFO material out there, and studying them to decide the fake ones from the real ones would be particularly tricky nowadays.
Depends on image quality and context.
Gopi wrote:Is this an attempt at figuring out how to differentiate between the two?
I don't think this is something that can be learned. If someone wants to project their UFO fantasies onto an airplane, balloon, or star then that it what it becomes for them - regardless of the "reality" of the situation. Because theirs is obviously a false depiction of a rather objective situation, it is interesting to try to understand what purpose the wish fulfillment serves and why it overrode an attempt at understanding. The wish projection is apparently a compensation of some kind and part of a pathological condition.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Tue May 22, 2007 5:31 am

zenmaster wrote:
LoneBear wrote:They are interesting photographs, to say the least. Hard to believe that they are "real", however. The design is somewhat unique in the UFO arena, as is all the writing on the underside (which looks like Centauri script from B5). I'd love to see a clearer picture of the writing to see what the font actually is, as well as the quadrated symbol that seems to be used heavily on every section.

Can't determine a size, since there is no way to determine how far away it is. The details seem rather clear to be very far off, though.
"Chad" the pictures submitter said it was "very large".. But it looks like a 5-8' model to me. The people in abovetopsecret.com are claiming "fake" because of the EXIF info containing the "photoshop elements" string. But the C2C webmaster probably just used that to reduce the original pics to fit in the window. Webmaster probably also increased the JPEG compression. The writing has been said to look like Klingon or Japanese katakana (probably due to the "Fu" character).
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/klingon.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana
Linda Moulten Howe's updated story on this:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/15/07]
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/16/07]
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/21/07]

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Tue May 22, 2007 12:44 pm

I notice in these photos that the appendages are different, almost like the same ring craft with attachable probes. The design makes a lot of sense; transceiver array and central complex with various sensing devices that can be connected. Same idea of the Sikorsky skycrane or the "Eagles" from Space: 1999.

Given the area it has been spotted in, got to wonder if Borderland Sciences is behind it?

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sun May 27, 2007 10:03 pm

Another update: Two More Eyewitnesses of Aerial "Drones" in 2005 and 2006
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/25/07]

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Mon May 28, 2007 6:16 pm

Yet another update. This thing is taking on a life of its own:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/28/07]

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Wed May 30, 2007 7:38 pm

I notice that the appendages change with different locations, so it may be 'test equipment', or just "copycat aliens"!

If it actually is a "real" thing, then I am surprised that there aren't a lot more photos out there, given the popularity of camera phones. The way things are these days, probably just someone test marketing a new kids toy for Christmas, to replace the old "Johnny Astro".

It is still quite interesting, though.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Wed May 30, 2007 8:09 pm

It is interesting. Not compelling as far as an autonomous craft of some kind. But all the hype, conjecture and speculation being generated, considering the absence of sufficient info, is astounding. The sheer lack of discrimination paired with the strong convictions sort of brings home the argument against having a pure democracy in this country.

For example, This guy genuinely thinks his discarded banana turned into a reptile:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2 ... heme=light
You can not make this stuff up folks.
Last edited by zenmaster on Wed May 30, 2007 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Wed May 30, 2007 8:19 pm

zenmaster wrote:For example, This guy genuinely thinks his discarded banana turned into a reptile:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2 ... heme=light
You can not make this stuff up folks.
Is it "discrimination", or just plain ignorance? The level of education in the world, particularly the USA, has dropped off substantially. Most High School graduates cannot not pass a 3rd grade test that was given in 1940.

In this case, an armadillo probably walked over to eat the banana and got run over, thus transmuting the banana into a reptile.

I think a lot of the enthusiasm people have for the strange is due to an unconscious apprehension that a change is coming. There must be a reason for it, they can feel it, but cannot associate it with anything external.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Wed May 30, 2007 8:32 pm

LoneBear wrote:Is it "discrimination", or just plain ignorance? The level of education in the world, particularly the USA, has dropped off substantially. Most High School graduates cannot not pass a 3rd grade test that was given in 1940.
I'd say the general level of education has dropped. However education has a strong correlation with having an interest in learning. And an interest in learning is fostered by many things in society and family that we no longer have. We're also going down hill on imagination on the one hand and, perhaps its complement: critical thinking.
LoneBear wrote:I think a lot of the enthusiasm people have for the strange is due to an unconscious apprehension that a change is coming.
I think the feeling associated with an apprehension of change can be easily confused with the feeling associated with the unconscious need to change. That is, to correct an imbalance. When the collective ignores things, a vaccuum of expectation is created (ala the apprehension), just as when an individual ignores things. Now considering the collective's need to be parented (i.e. to have things handed to them on a plate), the manifestation of change that they will soon be demanding (rather than merely apprehending) will call for such a saviour.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Wed May 30, 2007 9:17 pm

zenmaster wrote:I think the feeling associated with an apprehension of change can be easily confused with the feeling associated with the unconscious need to change. That is, to correct an imbalance. When the collective ignores things, a vaccuum of expectation is created (ala the apprehension), just as when an individual ignores things. Now considering the collective's need to be parented (i.e. to have things handed to them on a plate), the manifestation of change that they will soon be demanding (rather than merely apprehending) will call for such a saviour.
Patrick Harpur, in Daimonic Reality, suggests that the reason we have UFOs and other metaphysical occurrences in our lives is to trigger a change of consciousness. Individuals who need a kick in the butt have isolated sightings or experiences. When a collective becomes stagnant, you get things like the Blessed Virgin Mary apparitions that appear to many thousands of people. Remember Conyers?

The collective need for a Hero is an excellent observation, since it is one that people like to play upon for controlling collective minds. Religious "Pat Robertson" types of Blue, "Bill Gates" entrepreneurial types of Orange, and the ET Channelers of Green.

We know that the metaphysical events occur from NATURAL pressure imbalances. By that I mean that they were not contrived CONSCIOUSLY, as a lot of the current situations are these days by the Power Elite. I am wondering of Nature CAN re-balance those artificial systems, or will the system just go into a state of Chaos, instead, because it is not operating under natural laws?

It may well be that the balancing mechanism will not be psychological or spiritual, but physical--the karma expressing itself in earthquakes and volcanism, instead.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Wed May 30, 2007 10:30 pm

LoneBear wrote:Patrick Harpur, in Daimonic Reality, suggests that the reason we have UFOs and other metaphysical occurrences in our lives is to trigger a change of consciousness. Individuals who need a kick in the butt have isolated sightings or experiences. When a collective becomes stagnant, you get things like the Blessed Virgin Mary apparitions that appear to many thousands of people. Remember Conyers?
A change in consciousness seems to be the most conspicuous effect, if not the sole reason. There typically a sense of wonder and immanent transcendence associated with it, which are spiritual qualities. This suggests that there is some corrective process going on the in psyche related to a problem with spiritual connection.

I wonder if the outward manifestation is more common amoung introverts, while the extrovert would have an inner experience of some kind?
LoneBear wrote:The collective need for a Hero is an excellent observation, since it is one that people like to play upon for controlling collective minds. Religious "Pat Robertson" types of Blue, "Bill Gates" entrepreneurial types of Orange, and the ET Channelers of Green.
Had to laugh at that.
LoneBear wrote:We know that the metaphysical events occur from NATURAL pressure imbalances. By that I mean that they were not contrived CONSCIOUSLY, as a lot of the current situations are these days by the Power Elite.
They are just taking the power willingly given to them. So they are an effect, not a primary cause. "Right" guidance is built in and continually available, but has been sold off for empty hopes and fears.
LoneBear wrote:I am wondering of Nature CAN re-balance those artificial systems, or will the system just go into a state of Chaos, instead, because it is not operating under natural laws?
At what point does "natural" become "artificial" with respect to Nature's balance. I think this is one of the basic philosophical questions that could get into the whole mind and matter problem.
LoneBear wrote:It may well be that the balancing mechanism will not be psychological or spiritual, but physical--the karma expressing itself in earthquakes and volcanism, instead.
Possibly. Conflict tends to transmute from subtle to gross forms if not resolved at the higher levels, closer to the source - akin to negative emotion turning into physical illness, perhaps. But all the information should be there to determine the most likely expression for the correction - the "Power Elite" can manufacture something that releases some pressure, and for their own ends. But to the extent that the pressure release is not constructive (that is to their sense of fulfillment), people will be looking for another solution.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by Starlight* » Wed May 30, 2007 10:54 pm

LoneBear wrote:In this case, an armadillo probably walked over to eat the banana and got run over, thus transmuting the banana into a reptile.
lol, that's a good one! In that case, how creative.
zenmaster wrote:I wonder if the outward manifestation is more common amoung introverts, while the extrovert would have an inner experience of some kind?
Interesting observation. Manifestation is an outer (ex-tro-vert), while (in-tro-vert) inner experience. So can both be experienced?


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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Thu May 31, 2007 7:16 pm

Another person writes in to claim he saw this exact same thing in an AFB hanger...
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/30/07]

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