UFO-related

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
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LoneBear
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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:39 pm

zenmaster wrote:I wonder if the outward manifestation is more common amoung introverts, while the extrovert would have an inner experience of some kind?
As an unconscious function, I would agree with that since it would be the most effective way to encourage change. Changing valuing systems always requires a dissatisfaction with the current system, before new systems are explored.
zenmaster wrote:They are just taking the power willingly given to them. So they are an effect, not a primary cause. "Right" guidance is built in and continually available, but has been sold off for empty hopes and fears.
Only "willing" in some cases. Most of the time it is through force by an act of will.
zenmaster wrote:At what point does "natural" become "artificial" with respect to Nature's balance. I think this is one of the basic philosophical questions that could get into the whole mind and matter problem.
It becomes artificial when conscious, free will is used to control or alter events. Nature is the unconscious manifest. It doesn't try to think-out a new evolutionary stage, it just goes and literally tries ALL the possibilities and waits to see what survives. It doesn't "plot" anything, it just "does." Man, and others on this world, plot to control destiny.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:41 pm

zenmaster wrote:Another person writes in to claim he saw this exact same thing in an AFB hanger...
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/30/07]
This I would place some confidence in. It looks like something built here as a prototype. Just gotta wonder why... curious it is only seen in Federal forest lands.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:36 pm

Lonebear wrote:It becomes artificial when conscious, free will is used to control or alter events.
But there are no events without consciousness, unless you subscribe to the realist philosophy. An control and alteration is a natural consequence of life and adaptation, the quality of which changes based on intent.
Lonebear wrote:Nature is the unconscious manifest.
But manifestation involves consciousness. So does the interpretation of manifestation. Actually, any participation in nature requires consciousness.
Lonebear wrote: It doesn't try to think-out a new evolutionary stage, it just goes and literally tries ALL the possibilities and waits to see what survives.
I'd say nature participates in its own evolution, consciously, but without the abstract-reference frame bias, until the concept of a distinction-making mind is introduced. However, you could say there is a type of bias operating in the form of the quality of the determinism, that we identify in the archetypes, though.
Lonebear wrote: It doesn't "plot" anything, it just "does." Man, and others on this world, plot to control destiny.
I think that control and destiny in this sense are ultimately the same thing. That is destiny is perceived to be a means for a state of control - the quality of which is a projection of a mere apprehension of what the individual lacks in current consciousness. However, there is a type of "just doing" with mind also, where it is seen that "destiny" doesn't exist in the future. In other words, the agency required for control does not need to get projected onto some external event sequence that mostly exists the future.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:42 pm

LoneBear wrote:
zenmaster wrote:Another person writes in to claim he saw this exact same thing in an AFB hanger...
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/30/07]
This I would place some confidence in. It looks like something built here as a prototype. Just gotta wonder why... curious it is only seen in Federal forest lands.
I'm leaning towards the writer just inventing something plausible in order to stir stuff up. The writer hints at his own agenda by seeming to speculate on the intent behind the current obvious fakes attributed to the subject.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:06 am

Another "Drone" update:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [6/8/2007]

I have to admit, this is starting to become weird.

Original source with better pictures :
"More Photographs of Strange Craft Taken at Big Basin"
http://www.ufocasebook.com/bigbasin.html

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Re: UFO-related

Post by LoneBear » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:58 pm

zenmaster wrote:I have to admit, this is starting to become weird.
The recent change in design, particularly the arrow-like parts at the bottom, made it look like it may be dropping probes into the Earth. Playing a hunch, I grabbed an image of the California earthquake fault zones and overlaid it on the sightings map--all the sightings appear to be adjacent to the San Andreas or Sierra Nevada faults lines. Given the inaccuracy of the sighting positions, they may be right over the faults.

Next question... are they trying to DETECT an earthquake, STOP and earthquake, or CAUSE and earthquake???
Attachments
SightingFaults.jpg
Sightings and Fault Zones
SightingFaults.jpg (24.88 KiB) Viewed 6734 times

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:20 pm

LoneBear wrote:Next question... are they trying to DETECT an earthquake, STOP and earthquake, or CAUSE and earthquake???
The object (or objects) have reportedly been around for years. If it was trying to cause earthquakes all that time, it's not very effective. Very suspicious why there is no video, or more pictures, if people are getting 2nd chances to see it. Another suspicious thing is the "alien" writing - as if someone had an idea to make it appear alien by using characters similar to, but different from Japanese. A third suspicious element is Chad's claim that the object was "very large" - he was able to get right underneath it and had a 3-D view. His photos seem to have been purposefully made without scale indications. However, when you look at all the available photos, there is no indication that any of these are bigger than say 7' or 8' across. At this point, my guess is that Chad is just another hoaxer.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:03 pm

LoneBear wrote:I grabbed an image of the California earthquake fault zones and overlaid it on the sightings map--all the sightings appear to be adjacent to the San Andreas or Sierra Nevada faults lines.
I took a closer look at this. I don't see a compelling correlation with the reported locations and the fault lines.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by Starlight* » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:16 pm

Hi ya'All!
zenmaster wrote:
Lonebear wrote:It becomes artificial when conscious, free will is used to control or alter events.
But there are no events without consciousness, unless you subscribe to the realist philosophy. An control and alteration is a natural consequence of life and adaptation, the quality of which changes based on intent.
zenmaster wrote:I think that control and destiny in this sense are ultimately the same thing. That is destiny is perceived to be a means for a state of control - the quality of which is a projection of a mere apprehension of what the individual lacks in current consciousness. However, there is a type of "just doing" with mind also, where it is seen that "destiny" doesn't exist in the future. In other words, the agency required for control does not need to get projected onto some external event sequence that mostly exists the future.


In any being the changes due to necessary causes are called natural, whereas those produced by intentional human activity are called artificial.

Natural can become artificial, depending on the extent of human intervention (influence).

Who's to say, if it's natural or artificial. Only one would know.

Specific information and knowing where it's coming from to make such a determination of an individual.

In some dictionaries destiny is defined as "control", and another "beyond control".

Webster's has destiny as "control".


dictonary.com as:

destiny -

A predetermined course of events considered as something beyond human power or control.

Latin: destinare - to determine

There has been discussions of the conscious, unconscious. Has one considered "supernatural"? Supernatural overrules hynosis, trance, etc.

Supernatural - destination to final objects, beyond the reach of all created nature.

Thanks! :wink:


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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:42 pm

Starlight* wrote:In any being the changes due to necessary causes are called natural, whereas those produced by intentional human activity are called artificial.

Natural can become artificial, depending on the extent of human intervention (influence).

Who's to say, if it's natural or artificial. Only one would know.
I'd say that is true. Artificial becomes natural. That is, a person's intent or use of will becomes "natural" to another person. Otherwise there would be 1) no logos principle possible, and 2) no possibility to infringe on free will.

You could also call nature "deterministic", in that the quality nature's "need" is always expressed. You could call it "unconscious" because there seems to be a lack of a specific intent expressed (we seem to identify with particular goals). However, the unconscious has no meaning at all without contrast to consciousness. The consciousness that we identify with ourselves must be contrasted with nature in order to see it, and make it real. So we will always identify our conscious intent as "fully conscious" against the background of nature - because we have no means to identify partial consciousness. We do not know what is missing so we identify that part with nature itself, or as Jung said, "the mind does not know its own substance".

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:39 am

Part 1: Northridge, California, Aerial "Drone" Eyewitness On the Record
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [6/15/07]

More Big Basin, California, Bizarre "Drone" Images
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [6/17/07]

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:27 pm

Wow, talk about your dead ends. And disappointing...Take a basic ignorance
of how google processes search commands, and combine with the type of
imagination used to find animal shapes in clouds, and you get this story:

"Writing In Chad "Drone" Image - A Link to NASA Clementine 1 Moon Mission?" (No)
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [6/18/07]

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UFO Big Basin CG recreation

Post by zenmaster » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:23 pm

UFO Big Basin CG recreation
"A mock up of the recent 'Big Basin' UFO. Not entirely correct,
as I worked from the first batch of photos, where some details
weren't very clear or visable."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBEYc5OUUtw

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:41 am

"Dragonfly "Drone" Seen October 1995 in Arizona"
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [6/22/07]

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:56 am

Some "drone"-related posts covering a lot of analysis and speculation, on the "Open Minds Forum":
Big Basin, California UFO - June 5th 2007
Big Basin, California UFOII - June 17th 2007
UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed

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Palo Alto Caret Laboratory Q4-86 Research Report

Post by Eccles » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:03 am

zenmastrer wrote:Yet another update. This thing is taking on a life of its own:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/28/07]
You should monitor the http://www.earthfiles site, zenmaster. Linda Moulton Howe provides enough language graphics and anti-gravity drone documentation from Isaac for a lot of stirring the pot at: http://earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1278& ... nvironment

Go Isaac, Palo Alto Caret Labs and possibly Stanford!!

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Re: Palo Alto Caret Laboratory Q4-86 Research Report

Post by zenmaster » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:15 pm

Eccles wrote:
zenmastrer wrote:Yet another update. This thing is taking on a life of its own:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... nvironment [5/28/07]
You should monitor the http://www.earthfiles site, zenmaster. Linda Moulton Howe provides enough language graphics and anti-gravity drone documentation from Isaac for a lot of stirring the pot at: http://earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1278& ... nvironment

Go Isaac, Palo Alto Caret Labs and possibly Stanford!!
I do browse those sites, but have purposely stopped adding updated "drone" story links from LMH's site to this thread. I did read the story from "Isaac" and now its seems even more like a hoax to me, for numerous reasons.

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Symbols

Post by Eccles » Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:13 am

I concur with the possible hoax theory; however, the discussion and depiction in the document of the symbology on the craft was interesting.

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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:27 am

I agree with the story being interesting. One reason that angle works so well is that using a "language", as some kind of motivator for a "vehicle", is allegorical to the basic human condition. The semiotic aspect of language itself is like like a gateway to and from the mind, which we try to understand better. Also a levitating vehicle = transcendence, which is the general goal of evolution. And the symbolic approach to understanding is the compliment to the reductionistic approach, where reductionism is currently overly relied upon in the sciences. I think all of these factors make the story compelling.

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Roswell officer's amazing deathbed admission

Post by zenmaster » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:15 pm

Roswell officer's amazing deathbed admission raises possibility that aliens DID visit [3/30/07]
last week came an astonishing new twist to the Roswell mystery - which casts new light on the incident and raises the possibility that we have, indeed, been visited by aliens.

Lieutenant Walter Haut was the public relations officer at the base in 1947, and was the man who issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard.

Haut died last year, but left a sworn affidavit to be opened only after his death.

Last week, the text was released and asserts that the weather balloon claim was a cover story, and that the real object had been recovered by the military and stored in a hangar. He described seeing not just the craft, but alien bodies.

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Re: Roswell

Post by lvx08 » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:11 pm

Project camelot has an interesting take on Roswell - that it involved humans I think 20,000 years in the future come to fix some problem which happened
then. The crash was a disaster not only because the mission failed but it also created a 2nd timeline

http://www.projectcamelot.net/big_picture.html

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Re: Roswell

Post by zenmaster » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:46 pm

lvx08 wrote:Project camelot has an interesting take on Roswell - that it involved humans I think 20,000 years in the future come to fix some problem which happened then.
They got that story from Dan Burisch http://eaglesdisobey.net/

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"Deathbed" affidavit to seeing spacecraft & bo

Post by zenmaster » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:08 pm

Well, the Roswell story seems to be beat to death and confused with a lot of proven misinformation and bad sci-fi fantasy stories, rumor, speculation and so on. But this affidavit does seem to be a significant development as far as finding out what really happened 60 years ago.
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Haut.html

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Debunking the Drones

Post by zenmaster » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:03 pm


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Re: UFO-related

Post by zenmaster » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:08 pm

Belgium Triangle UFO video 8/24/07:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ukoo ... nce-1_news

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