Group Mind

General discussion about the Elder Race, Life, the Universe and Everything.
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LoneBear
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Group Mind

Post by LoneBear » Tue May 08, 2007 10:20 pm

I was talking with a friend today, and he brought up an interesting idea concerning the group mind and intelligence--we know that bees, fish and ant colonies have a type of collective intelligence the organizes and keeps the colony healthy (and the recent bee deaths may be an electronic disruption of that non-local communication pathway).

He proposed the idea colonies of parasites, bacteria and other colony-oriented pathogens may work the same way, with one important difference--typically being internal to a larger organism, they may be able to use their collective will (group mind) to influence the host organism unconsciously, causing things like depression and making decisions that will favor their growth, to the detriment of the host.

I know the idea has been played on in Sci-Fi, the Red Dwarf episode, "Epideme", and the Futurama episode, "Parasites Lost" where parasites from a truckstop egg salad sandwich turn Frye into a superman, because they wanted a better place to live.

Wondering if anyone had heard of any scientific research in this area? The only thing I've seen close is some private research on the idea of "spiritual viruses", a type of metaphysical virus that could influence emotion and will.

And the thought does occur that humans could literally be a parasite in a host Earth, with similar influence!

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Re: Group Mind

Post by zenmaster » Tue May 08, 2007 10:34 pm

...being internal to a larger organism, they may be able to use their collective will (group mind) to influence the host organism unconsciously, causing things like depression and making decisions that will favor their growth, to the detriment of the host.
It is interesting to consider an evolutionary adaptation such as this, that would allow a parasite to "know" the host organism well enough to succesfully survive in this manner. Holistically, in order to favor the lifecycle of the parasite, there must also be some kind of space made by the host.

One possible example is the so-called "leaky gut syndrome", where there may be a colony of yeast overtaking the friendly gut bacteria. The gut yeast multiply when the host eats certain carbs/sugars. I am wondering if the yeast may help promote a taste for sugar in some way?

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Re: Group Mind

Post by Starlight* » Tue May 08, 2007 11:46 pm

LoneBear wrote:Wondering if anyone had heard of any scientific research in this area? The only thing I've seen close is some private research on the idea of "spiritual viruses", a type of metaphysical virus that could influence emotion and will.
I'll just say, observations have been made and it does strike a cord. Speaking of cords, and zen's mention of the gut makes sense.
Zenmaster wrote:It is interesting to consider an evolutionary adaptation such as this, that would allow a parisite to "know" the host organism well enough to succesfully survive in this manner. Holistically, in order to favor the lifecycle of the parasite, there must also be some kind of space made by the host.
Thus, lowering of vibrations of the host. That space would be the sharing of it, when the parisite is in close proximity of the host. still, In heart of matter, this would explain their need to move.

Many interesting observations are present both here and there.


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Re: Group Mind

Post by Alluvion » Wed May 09, 2007 8:36 am

chronic fatigue syndrome is generally attributed to some kind of pathogen - viral, bacterial or otherwise, that is yet to be identified by causes physiological and psychological lethargy, depression, etc - so it is definately possible.

Of course the task then becomes figuring out how to empty and clear the system.

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Re: Group Mind

Post by Starlight* » Wed May 09, 2007 9:12 am

'spiritual virus', Spiritual bees, eh?

No one mentioned, a 'spiritual cold', bouncing quickly from it.


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Re: Group Mind

Post by Alluvion » Wed May 09, 2007 11:06 pm

zen, your post has me thinking a lot about that 'leakey gut' syndrome - i've never heard of it before. But perhaps there is some connection between an organism and certain addictions indeed.

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Re: Group Mind

Post by lvx08 » Thu May 10, 2007 5:21 am

LoneBear wrote:Wondering if anyone had heard of any scientific research in this area? The only thing I've seen close is some private research on the idea of "spiritual viruses", a type of metaphysical virus that could influence emotion and will.
Do you know Lynn Margulis work on endosymbiosis where she proposes that some organelles of the cell such as the mitochondria are the result of 2 cells coming together in a symbiotic relationship to evolve into the one cell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis

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Re: Group Mind

Post by LoneBear » Thu May 10, 2007 1:31 pm

zenmaster wrote:It is interesting to consider an evolutionary adaptation such as this, that would allow a parasite to "know" the host organism well enough to succesfully survive in this manner.
Is it an adaptation, or simply how it's always worked? Consider archetypes and non-local connections... if bacilli are analogous to group mind ants or bees, and a single infection can produce millions of them... how many exist, non-locally connected, worldwide in all of the 5 billion+ of humanity and other mammals? That could be a substantial collective consciousness.

It is also interesting to note the resistance developed by pathogens to modern drugs. It could be a simple, evolutionary matter--survival of the fittest--but I found the speed at which this immunity moves across the world to be amazing. They attribute it to a mobile population carrying stronger pathogen strains, but it may be more like that "100th monkey" syndrome--transmitted non-locally and globally.
zenmaster wrote:Holistically, in order to favor the lifecycle of the parasite, there must also be some kind of space made by the host.
What kind of "space" are you referring to?
zenmaster wrote:One possible example is the so-called "leaky gut syndrome", where there may be a colony of yeast overtaking the friendly gut bacteria. The gut yeast multiply when the host eats certain carbs/sugars. I am wondering if the yeast may help promote a taste for sugar in some way?
It would make sense that it would, because the yeast would be depleting the body of carbs/sugars by eating them before the host can. Hence, you would crave what the bugs like, since you aren't getting them.

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Re: Group Mind

Post by zenmaster » Thu May 10, 2007 5:53 pm

lonebear wrote:
zenmaster wrote:It is interesting to consider an evolutionary adaptation such as this, that would allow a parasite to "know" the host organism well enough to succesfully survive in this manner.
Is it an adaptation, or simply how it's always worked?
I guess it depends on the use of the "will" of the organism. Archetypes are non-local, but I'm not sure about eternal.

lonebear wrote:Consider archetypes and non-local connections... if bacilli are analogous to group mind ants or bees, and a single infection can produce millions of them... how many exist, non-locally connected, worldwide in all of the 5 billion+ of humanity and other mammals? That could be a substantial collective consciousness.
Substantial in what sense? In shear numbers, yes. But if there is no evolution involved, then you've just got a quick-acting adapative mechanism that sort of just stirs the pot.

lonebear wrote:It is also interesting to note the resistance developed by pathogens to modern drugs. It could be a simple, evolutionary matter--survival of the fittest--but I found the speed at which this immunity moves across the world to be amazing. They attribute it to a mobile population carrying stronger pathogen strains, but it may be more like that "100th monkey" syndrome--transmitted non-locally and globally.
The collective unconscious group mind acts like a logos. This type of research is Rupert Sheldrake's life's work. I've got a good lecture of his on the subject if you want a copy.
lonebear wrote:
zenmaster wrote:Holistically, in order to favor the lifecycle of the parasite, there must also be some kind of space made by the host.
What kind of "space" are you referring to?
We can only act deterministically or with free will. The group minds that form the collective unconscious act as a deterministic fallback when we do not, or can not, use our free will in a particular domain (used by the group mind). This is the "space" that is provided for another logos to use their will.

In other words, given:
group mind = unconscious other
personal unconscious = unconscious you
logos = use of free will in the conscious you or conscious other or
use of determinism in the unconscious you or unconscious other

So as opportunistic situations emerge, what is given the "space" to act is that which can use free will in that situation. That is where a "logos" may act as an archetype.

And where a "logos", as other, is acting where you are involved, you are involved in a "deterministic" manner. (Here, determined by whatever pattern the logos is providing)

So one example is emotional blockage leading to some particular immune system suppression, leading to viral infection. Scientifically, and logically it looks like the viral infection is not associated with the emotional blockage. Holistically, there is no disconnect.

Another example would be the "fashion victim", where the group mind provides/offers a feeling of appropriateness to others as to how they can represent themselves in that domain.

It's all a balance.
lonebear wrote:
zenmaster wrote:One possible example is the so-called "leaky gut syndrome", where there may be a colony of yeast overtaking the friendly gut bacteria. The gut yeast multiply when the host eats certain carbs/sugars. I am wondering if the yeast may help promote a taste for sugar in some way?
It would make sense that it would, because the yeast would be depleting the body of carbs/sugars by eating them before the host can. Hence, you would crave what the bugs like, since you aren't getting them.
Good point.

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