Symbol and Name

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Symbol and Name

Post by BlueEagle » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:14 pm

I am in the process of puting together material on the Anla'shok. However, as LoneBear pointed out to me, Anla'shok is, 1. not quite right for our purposes and 2. probably copyrighted. Rangers has a military tinge to it and is to common I think. So... we need a new name.

Ideas:

Messanger in latin: nuntius
Guardian, guard : curator, tutela

Secondly, a symbol for the Anla'shok would be nice. So if any of you have knowledge in that area, please feel free to contribute.
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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:49 pm

I feel that we are congregating as an echo of councils of beleifs and ideals far beyond the illusions of this world and I think its important that both or name and symbol - ie, identity marker, anchors that - but is not anchored against change or revision.

And I actually came to the same conclusion about the Babylon 5 references from the other posts - its a fantastic pre-script, but it is copyright and so not truly "ours".

ranger - caretaker, custodian,concierge(associated with our actions), feild guide, steward, valet, representative

symbol - net, tilled soil, a bird sounding a call,


I think I need more time with this. Yep. Will report back.

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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by LoneBear » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:41 pm

With the Confederation, the Anla'shok are called the Guardians.

You could go more "medieval", using Knights of the Temple, like the Knights Templar... (wait, I think that one was taken).

I guess the question becomes, "why does Anla'shok sound so cool?"

"an la" basically means "of/on the", "shok" is the root to "chak", aka "chakra."

Anla'shok = Of the Chakra. People following their hearts. You could do a French version, Dela'chak, though it might be too phoentically similar.

I think you need to do more than just decide on a name and symbol -- you need to decide upon a motif -- a way of being that can be symbolized in imagery and spoken in words. Once you find the heart and spirit of the Rangers, the names and symbols will become apparent.

(Interesting... I just corrected a typeo when I spelled "words" as "wyrds", which may be a clue. "Wyrd" is from the Asatru tradition (Norse), which describes "the process of the unseen web of synchronicity of cause and effect throughout the cosmos" -- we get the word "weird" from it.) How weird!

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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:20 am

motif - very true, I was stabbing at that in a shallow way (object thinking vs systematic thinking)

from the tarot I kept connecting to the symbol of the bird - wings outstretched, beak opened in song or call.

the idea of network (the cast net vs the piled net)
but also of the steward, the caretaker...if we truly know things others do not then we are the ones who, in casting the net by the call of the soaring soul, are the ones who then translate experiences that are new to others.

perhaps of course, that is my take on the anlashok in one way.

we: connect, aid, serve, defend ?, share

those are our syntactic operations?

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the bird

Post by dbeaman1 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:01 am

Perhaps the bird you are seeing is the Phoenix?
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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:09 am

i have no specific bird in mind yet, but it is the action of the bird that I understand - activated, calling, etc...

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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by LoneBear » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:10 am

WarmSylph wrote:from the tarot I kept connecting to the symbol of the bird - wings outstretched, beak opened in song or call.
Now that you mention it, the bird motif has come up a number of times with me, also. I even have a bird sketch on my clipboard, where I was showing David how the new Cylon fighters looked like a bird with its wings thrown upward, like they do just before they perch on a limb.
dbeaman1 wrote:Perhaps the bird you are seeing is the Phoenix?
Interesting thought, Professor McGonagall.

Rising from the ashes, to be born anew. Complete with super-strength, and healing tears. I like it.

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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:49 pm

if this bird idea carries through:

perhaps the expansive wing is composed of entirely distinct feathers, all different colors, pattenrs textures, materials etc that signify individuation (each feather in its distinct ness) but also unity in that they form the wing (which enables the spirit to soar, the body to feed and the mind to consider).


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feathers

Post by dbeaman1 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:25 pm

And of course, during flight, all those lovely feathers merge into beautiful Oneness :)
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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:58 pm

its a shimmering blur : )

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Re:

Post by BlueEagle » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:42 pm

Alright, it sounds like the bird, the phoenix in particular, is agreeable to us all. With that, I would like to ask for anyone’s art skills, on computer or other wise, to create a few drawings and sketches based on the ideas presented here.
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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:54 pm

hey blue eagle,
can 'officially' poll this? I don't want to assume anyones opinion and not leave room for any changes or evolutions, personally.


Also, while figuring on the identity of the phoenix is definately useful to beginning getting more specific, each of us will have much different 'images' associated with this archetypal pattern. Perhaps there is a way we can abstract the phoenix to put it in relationship with other patterns, much like the tarot - but as evocative for 'deep mind' as it results in the collection of us as individuals. If this symbol is really going to be symbolic of this group then this group needs to really explore the identity of the symbol.

What does the phoenix MEAN to each of us? How could you constuct and image to communicate this?

to me the phoenix is an image of spiritual essence - restitution/judgement/aeon in the major arcana - the transformatin of spirit. So I ask is that what we wish to communicate, the transformation of spirit? Or perhaps do we serve some other function set more primarly? I think is important enough to discuss instead of just kind of picking one, ya know? Its construction is important and shouldn't be haphazard.

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Re:

Post by BlueEagle » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:49 pm

I don't want to assume anyones opinion and not leave room for any changes or evolutions, personally.
Exactly, which is why having a sketch would help us get ideas. To let it evolve from there. See what people think. Nothing is set in stone (except for the stone).
each of us will have much different 'images' associated with this archetypal pattern
I think is important enough to discuss instead of just kind of picking one
I think you misunderstood my request, and I didn't make it clear enough. There is no way first sketches will be the symbol, but I think it is important to have everyone on a good starting block so we can discuss how we want the image to be presented. If we have a few sketches to work from, we can use different attributes from the images to get ideas, and we can see how our ideas could be used in the image.
hey blue eagle,
can 'officially' poll this
Good idea, I've been wanting to use the "poll" option. Mmm...I have to find it first. That will be up soon. Not everyone will vote, just like no every one voices their opinion. What to you propose we should do about that?
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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:02 am

is it possible for LoneBear as website maestro to send out a mass private message or email to all antiquatis members to get their attention?

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mass email

Post by LoneBear » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:52 am

WarmSylph wrote:is it possible for lonebear as website maestro to send out a mass private message or email to all antiquatis members to get their attention?
BlueEagle has the privs to email the entire Anla'shok group (Admin panel, General Admin, Mass email), so that can be done.
Last edited by LoneBear on Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Suggestions

Post by LoneBear » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:39 am

Classically, the phoenix is shown as being reborn from its ashes -- back into life. Given the context of 4th density and Ascension, perhaps you want to expand the concept of the phoenix as rising from the Earth and spreading its wings towards the heavens, symbolically representing the Rangers bridging the knowledge gap between the mundane and the spiritual?

Could make for an interesting logo.

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Classic Phoenix Image

Post by LoneBear » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:13 pm

This is the classical representation of the phoenix, from alchemical texts.
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Universal Phoenix

Post by LoneBear » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:26 pm

I'm no artist, but I can cut and paste like a champ...

This was the basic idea, roughly done.

It combines the symbols:

1) Phoenix consumed by the fire of catalyst during our 3rd density stay on Earth.

2) Rising up out of the ashes (unconscious being made conscious) thru the colored flame densities.

3) Wings outstreatched to the stars, about to take flight to become part of the Interstellar family.
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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:27 pm

hey loenbear, in the really sketchy (crappy) graphics I drew that was definately at the core of my depiction - the bird rises from the Earth.

but what does this mean for a group of people who decide to share a bond in the sharing of knowledge, spirituality and experience? how appropriate is the phoenix? I think that perhaps the phoenix is a symbol for another organizational system of which we are(perhaps) a part of - forinstance, a wing on the bird rising from the "ashen" earth.

I know this is highly biblical - but what about the fisherman/woman casting a net? or the table of food? Perhaps they are too biblical but some discussion can unravel their true core identity.

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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by LoneBear » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:59 pm

WarmSylph wrote:but what does this mean for a group of people who decide to share a bond in the sharing of knowledge, spirituality and experience?
It is not limited to "people", but all the life on Earth. The "bond" is just the conscious aspect of the social memory complex.

There is a lot of similarity to the Christian "born again", in that when one intellectually and spiritually develops to a certain point, there is "no turning back" -- you cannot climb back into the womb of ignorance, and you are therefore "born again" into the light of understanding.
WarmSylph wrote:how appropriate is the phoenix?
The phoenix is the archetypal symbol of this rebirth process.
WarmSylph wrote:I think that perhaps the phoenix is a symbol for another organizational system of which we are(perhaps) a part of - forinstance, a wing on the bird rising from the "ashen" earth.
Don't underestimate yourself! :)

All the feathers are One with the bird.

I think it is best to avoid putting out the thought-forms of the Earth getting toasted. It might be the case, but it is not that important. What is important is the catalyst we have here. What does catalyst do? It makes things burn hotter, faster. By associating the ashes of the phoenix with personal fire of catalyst, it carries the secondary symbolism of the purification rites of passage, the burning away of the detrius and limitations to unleash the true spirit.
WarmSylph wrote:I know this is highly biblical - but what about the fisherman/woman casting a net? or the table of food? Perhaps they are too biblical but some discussion can unravel their true core identity.
The problem with the fisherman/woman casting the net is that is symbolic of being ensnared or captured against one's will. This does not seem compatible with the idea behind the Rangers, where they only go where invited, and help others understand their situations -- not try to convert them to a philosophy.

If you notice, all fish symbolism is associated with religious conversion -- not self-discovery. Fish are group-minds, not individuals, that must be harvested to be put into the service of another -- at the fisherman's food table.

I suppose there is another factor to consider -- the strengh of the image you wish to present. The stronger the symbolic content, the more conflict it will cause in those who fear what it means (namely, those who want to stay fish). But on the other hand, it will also bring to you the strongest of individuals who will be of immense value -- but beware, strength has two aspects, the whales and the sharks.

You'll need to decide on the strength of image and symbol... penny poker, or high rollers? Safety or Risky? But I will tell you this: in my experience, things only change when someone gets the courage to take a risk.

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Re: Symbol and Name

Post by Alluvion » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:54 pm

lonebear, I lOVED the copy and paste.

its helping me figuring out what I am trying to say. I guess I attribute the severity of the phoenix in one context and thats why I feel kind of apprehensive about it. Is this a timeless aspect of our individual identities and so of the group identity? My associations with the phoenix are incredibly magical/rite of passage, as you say, and is rite of passage/esoteric ritual (intentional alchemy) what we offer?

I say that because I wonder about the phoenix within my personal symbology. At this point I do not feel as though I 'own' that within my identity but that I am affected by it and partake in its symbolism. Which Is why I offered the symbols I did, they are reflective of things I, at this point, feel assured about. Granted I haven't been here too long and I don't know myself in any encyclopedic way - so where others feel comfortable sitting with the phoenix symbolism and in essence, being phoenix's, I do not.

I agree with the rest of the imagery however - dealing with home and its transofmration, linking the formation of this group to the transoformation of this place and beings -I think thats important. I don't think of myself as assertive or 'powerful' enough yet to 'run around' as the reinvetor of others. I know I am coloring this with my own assumptions - working consciously within the unconsciouss cavities right here on the post ; )

So, I know the phoenix is something we can all identify with - we've all had the transition through flames experience, part of this process. To me it communicates a highly active identity, as though we are as a group of those offering service offering the chance to be reborn and that connotation I want to avoid since that has the chance to be coerced towards savior-ness.

I agree about the casting of the net imagrey, could read as being bound - not useful at all. I read us as being about participationg and exchange, willful and consciously with the perspective that all is one and knowing that is a process of discovery and journey. And I agree about creating a symbol which is catalytic - perhaps the phoenix is as such consider my current relationship to it. Is it possible to generate a catalytic symbol which is draws only the sharks or only the wales? Perhaps not, perhaps it just draws strength and in that way aids as catalyst for a group sharing in principle - it bring resonance and dissonance and keeps the learning going.

I feel alright with the phoenix now.

phoenix, flames, and earth, stars - I can get all sacred geometry about this. THe phoenix bridges a vescia pisces which arises from the overlap of the sphere of the earth and of the heavens - but bird imagery also has a history of imagery which inspires pride and strength - for both domineering and sharing participants (re nazis, dollar bill, the movie Starship Troopers, patriotic imagery, native american medicines).

Perhaps the bird arises IN the vesica between two circles overlaping 'horizontaly' rather than vertically. See attached images.

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Prototype

Post by BlueEagle » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:24 pm

Prototype

Were you talking about the vesica between the circles created by the stars and the Earth? If so, I'll see what I can come up with.
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Re: Prototype

Post by Alluvion » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:42 am

very nice cut and paste job! nice translucency, but the moon is extraneous. Though I know this is just prelim and investigation.

I mean that in someway the space made between the two spheres of heaven and earth or the space made by the overlap (they communicate differnet things) is important. So they layers we are considering is our past and current location (earth) our future and aim (the stars) and how we are a connection between those things - do wings enfold and suggest a relationship of embrace? or do the appendages extend in invitation, sharing, etc? How do we connect between the local scale and the stellar scale?

I know these are broad questions and such so maybe i'll read your collage to see what I can see:

I like the notion of depth in the image - the earth at the foreground, the moon behind, and farther off a bright source of light, and infinitley far away the blacness of space. What parades in front, but in an unclear relationship to those things - does that bird hold dominion over such things? does it change those things? is this charachter following a path? if so why are these things important...

very provocative!
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Re: Prototype

Post by LoneBear » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:24 am

I like the Earth/Moon idea, adds some interesting symbolic content of having both masculine and feminine principles working together, as well as making a clear identification of the "homeworld" where this is taking place.

The sun in the background is a nice symbol, too. Always striving towards enLIGHTenment, as well as having the solor logos a part of the system.

Quick note regarding "light-being" symbolism -- angelic is defined by smooth curves; demonic is defined by sharp points. That is why angels have halos and demons have horns. When I first looked at the foreground image, my mind yelled "Wraith!" before my brain understood what it was looking at. And with THREE hive ships on their way to Atlantis... guess I have Wraith on the mind.

Perhaps it needs to be more human than bird/angel... the "ascendent man" motif? Maybe applying the phoenix concept to a human, and finding a way to represent man rising from his own ashes?

I'm not sure what you can do with the vesica piscis (the original "fish" symbol of Christianity) concerning planets. I think it would have to be worked in to whatever is in the foreground.

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re. symbol

Post by dbeaman1 » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:56 pm

I love it. That's my vote :D
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