Finnish Mythology

Forum for the sharing and discussion of various research projects going on.
Post Reply
Ilkka
Praefectus
Praefectus
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Finnish Mythology

Post by Ilkka » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:23 pm

I got curious about the history of that giant serpent and with quick googling I got some info. In Finnish mythology Kalevala there is mention about a place which is described as evil in nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pohjola it says that there was also a giant snake that would be guarding the place or walls / fences or seemingly endless fiery pit.

It mentions also the "gates of Pohjola" that were "hot" or glowing rocky hills, that have since been interpret as Aurora Borealis, but I dont think so perhaps they were more literal back then, some sort of barrier to keep out unwanted people.

Here is a depiction of it https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pohjola_( ... artial.jpg which doesnt show in english wikipedia, only in finnish one.
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3951
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Horned Serpents

Post by LoneBear » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:04 pm

Ilkka wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:23 pm
It mentions also the "gates of Pohjola" that were "hot" or glowing rocky hills, that have since been interpret as Aurora Borealis, but I dont think so perhaps they were more literal back then, some sort of barrier to keep out unwanted people.
Based on the imagery and text I could translate, Pohjola may be Bifrost, the rainbow bridge to the North Star, Asgardr. I don't know enough of the Finnish mythos to build much of a correlation to the Norse, but one would expect a similarity, given the proximity.

There should be references to the Bargos Islands in your mythology and legend... but probably under a very different name. Any idea what?
Keeper of the Troth of Ásgarðr, Moriar prius quam dedecorer.

Ilkka
Praefectus
Praefectus
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Horned Serpents

Post by Ilkka » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:00 am

LoneBear wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:04 pm
Based on the imagery and text I could translate, Pohjola may be Bifrost, the rainbow bridge to the North Star, Asgardr. I don't know enough of the Finnish mythos to build much of a correlation to the Norse, but one would expect a similarity, given the proximity.
It mentions also that in Pohjola there was this mansion where there were parties, fighting and drinking that it was much like Valhalla from Norse mythology. So I think it has similarity there.
LoneBear wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:04 pm
There should be references to the Bargos Islands in your mythology and legend... but probably under a very different name. Any idea what?
I did find out that the whirl "Kinahmi" has other names as well one being "Rutjan koski" (Rutjas rapid) which refers to this place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnmark. In this old map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnmark# ... m_1660.jpg it seems to have more land around the coast line there.
I was thinking that could this mean that Finnmark is part of the Bargos Islands because all of these indicate only river that flows in Tuonela and no specific islands to be in, unless all comes back to the "Pohjola" since it refers to north (Pohjoinen). And it is said that Pohjola is a place or land.

I cant read apparently :D. In Kalevala Lapland is different from Pohjola and that it would locate further in the north than Lapland. I dont see any mention of needing to sail into there, but it also mentions that there are evil witches, wizards and all sorts of "monsters".

I found this picture https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinahmi#/ ... nnielu.jpg

There seems to be big red sea serpent coiling one ship. In this picture "Kinahmi" whirlpool is in the coast of Norway.
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3951
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:28 pm

I was reading some translations of Finnish mythology and found this particularly interesting: Paasselkä, where the mythos says a "great stone fell out of the sky and created the lake" (now confirmed as a meteor crater), with strange, magnetic anomalies that remind me of the "Mystery Spot" in California (anomalies also confirmed). Not to mention, it has devils there--ghost lights, earth lights or the old English, will-o'-the-wisp, an electrical phenomenon similar to ball lightning.

Might be something you could check out. It is one of the stranger spots in the world.

There is also this, Finnish elves--probably hanging out in "pygmie land" of the Bargos Islands:
In Finnish mythology, Väki means races of Haltijas (Finnish elves) and their magical powers. Different things in nature had their own väki guarding them. For example, Väki of water lived in and protected water. Väki is the name of both the magical power and Haltijas. Väki could sometimes be seen. They looked like little man-like creatures. Sometimes Väki went inside people and made people ill. Väki makes people ill if they behave badly in their kingdom. For example, if someone shouted in a forest without reason then the Väki of forest may make then ill. Shaman could heal these illnesses by telling the väki to leave the person and go back to its original place.
And, of course, the is Ukko, your version of Thor (many Norse connections; different names, but the same symbols and behaviors).
Keeper of the Troth of Ásgarðr, Moriar prius quam dedecorer.

Ilkka
Praefectus
Praefectus
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by Ilkka » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:32 am

LoneBear wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:28 pm
I was reading some translations of Finnish mythology and found this particularly interesting: Paasselkä, where the mythos says a "great stone fell out of the sky and created the lake" (now confirmed as a meteor crater), with strange, magnetic anomalies that remind me of the "Mystery Spot" in California (anomalies also confirmed). Not to mention, it has devils there--ghost lights, earth lights or the old English, will-o'-the-wisp, an electrical phenomenon similar to ball lightning.

Might be something you could check out. It is one of the stranger spots in the world.
Quite long travel would be into that lake, about 400 kms away. I own a car though and could got there to check it out.

It doesnt say in your english version but in finnish one the researchers have also found sulfide mineral pockets under the lake which they say "is the cause for" some or all anomalies in there. :D maybe some but definitely not all.
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3951
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by LoneBear » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:47 pm

Ilkka wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:32 am
It doesnt say in your english version but in finnish one the researchers have also found sulfide mineral pockets under the lake which they say "is the cause for" some or all anomalies in there. :D maybe some but definitely not all.
That does not seem likely... my guess would be a fragment of the meteor is still there that still has a faster-than-light component (intermediate or ultra-high speed range).

What I find interesting is that "The Paasselkä impact occurred about 231 million years ago (Carnian time stage of the Triassic)," yet indigenous people living in the region saw the "stone" fall from the sky. Geologic dating is SO messed up.
Keeper of the Troth of Ásgarðr, Moriar prius quam dedecorer.

Ilkka
Praefectus
Praefectus
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by Ilkka » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:18 pm

LoneBear wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:47 pm
That does not seem likely... my guess would be a fragment of the meteor is still there that still has a faster-than-light component (intermediate or ultra-high speed range).

What I find interesting is that "The Paasselkä impact occurred about 231 million years ago (Carnian time stage of the Triassic)," yet indigenous people living in the region saw the "stone" fall from the sky. Geologic dating is SO messed up.
I know right, so messed up. There are several other "meteor lakes" in Finland, one that is publicly more known (atleast to my knowledge) is "Lappajärvi" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Lappaj%C3%A4rvi
Again in finnish version it says that there is gravitational anomaly in Kärnäsaari where the main impact is located, also the lake has billions of tons of missing mass. Another fragment perhaps?

Meteor fragment with FTL component would cause some anomalies for sure. It would be worth digging up from there though, containment of it would need to be something metallic shielding. Lake is about 75 meters deep so its no easy task, not to mention the fragment that would be even deeper.

--edit--

Lappajärvi is much closer than Paasselkä, only 220 kms away, the other being almost twice that.
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3951
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by LoneBear » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:11 pm

Finland is a weird place... I don't think those lakes are impact craters--the surrounding terrain does not support that conclusion. Look at a satellite view and back off some... there is no indication of impact damage. Now take into account that all these lakes in the country are fresh water... while surrounded by salt water. If I follow my curiosity, I suspect that these "impact lakes" are actually hydro-volcanoes, a water volcano that spurt up from the ocean of the inner world that may have occurred when Murias sank during the last expansion event.

In the mythology, there is a fascination with large or oddly shaped stones, which are blamed on the gods. a stone fell and created a lake... I don't think the original word means "stone." I have not read enough reference to see what the pattern is here, but the Sumerians referred to a "tablet of destiny," the ME, which was able to control various features of Nature.

The same thing with "birds" (lintu). The stars are the "paths of the birds" (linnunwata) and the outer land, Lintukoto, is the "home of the birds." Taken in a different context, lintu may mean "god."

There appears to be a lot backwards. Lintukoto, the circumference of their flat Earth model, is a warm place, whereas other models make it a frozen wilderness. But there are also similarities, such as a central mountain, a world axis and a sky dome.

And there is the trilogy of gods, Kalevi at the top, who may also be Ukko in a more "familiar" form. Kalevi has two sons, Ilmarinen, an engineer (ENKI) and Väinämöinen, a bard (ENLIL). They apparently have a sister, Louhi, that sounds a lot like NINHURSAG.

Then you have the Sampo, with its remarkable similarity to the Cauldron of Dagda (the horn of plenty), which was constructed in Murias (in the land of ultima thule).

It would be interesting to put the pieces together to see how they compare to the other northern cultures, and how they connect to the ANNUNA and Sumerian systems. Perhaps something you can do.
Keeper of the Troth of Ásgarðr, Moriar prius quam dedecorer.

User avatar
Lozion
Cellarius
Cellarius
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Changes all the time..

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by Lozion » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:14 pm

Go Ilkka :D

(I may not post much anymore but still read everything, salutations to all)
In rapport we thrive, in rivalry we strive.

Ilkka
Praefectus
Praefectus
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by Ilkka » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:27 am

LoneBear wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:11 pm
Then you have the Sampo, with its remarkable similarity to the Cauldron of Dagda (the horn of plenty), which was constructed in Murias (in the land of ultima thule).
Yes in some interpretations Sampo is a cauldron that would spew out gold, food etc. In others it was a world pillar that kept the sky in place. Sampo might've also mean this thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantele, there are others such as sleigh, sauna or saima which is a boat I guess. Never thought of bird meaning a god, but it might in ancient dialect refer to something that flies which the gods did.

Interesting to see that Sampo may have been a device or an instrument, perhaps a bit of both, something that needs to be played to make a sound and stuff.

Also before 1950s they thought that Lappajärvi was an ancient volcano. So you might be onto something there it being hydrovolcano. Could it also explain the abundance of huge boulders around this country?

I've also wondered about the link of those what you mentioned (Ukko, Ilmarinen etc.)
Just reading further wikipedia about these characters and it says that "Väinämöinen and Ilmarinen were godly figures that later turned into more human like heroes".

Linnunrata today is "Milkyway". Etymology of the name comes from Swan that is sacred bird in Finland today still. Although it gives me link to "Tuonelan joutsen" which the name indicates is "Swan of Tuonela", so maybe it wasn't that kind of swan after all, literally I mean. Linnunrata is more of path of one bird, so there might've been only one flying thing (pterodactol or flying saucer shaped like a bird). Also the path went only about one direction south and south west to Lintokoto, which was mythological place. It says that everything in Lintukoto is small or tiny perhaps because of tight spaces. All birds went there for winter and human souls might've also gone there when they died.

Found this too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevi_(mythology) This one gotta be AN. This one was new to me since I never read the book Kalevala, I always thought the name come from a place called Kaleva in neighboring city of Tampere here, but its actually a character. Who knew, right. :D
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
LoneBear
Legatus Legionis
Legatus Legionis
Posts: 3951
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by LoneBear » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:25 pm

Ilkka wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:27 am
Found this too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevi_(mythology) This one gotta be AN. This one was new to me since I never read the book Kalevala, I always thought the name come from a place called Kaleva in neighboring city of Tampere here, but its actually a character. Who knew, right. :D
Finnish people called the star Sirius Kalevantähti which means "Star of Kaleva".
I find this interesting because Dogon legend says the ANNUNA came here from Sirius B. AN was the leader of the expedition sent to Earth by the DINGAR.

I notice that "stone" and "bird" appear to be used as a generic, catch-all word for concepts that the translators did not understand, or perhaps the people relating the stories no longer understand. Your best bet would be to talk to an elder and get him to tell you of the old stories.
Keeper of the Troth of Ásgarðr, Moriar prius quam dedecorer.

Ilkka
Praefectus
Praefectus
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Finnish Mythology

Post by Ilkka » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:22 am

LoneBear wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:25 pm
I notice that "stone" and "bird" appear to be used as a generic, catch-all word for concepts that the translators did not understand, or perhaps the people relating the stories no longer understand. Your best bet would be to talk to an elder and get him to tell you of the old stories.
I think that it most likely is that people no longer understand the stories or the very meaning of certain words. When Elias Lönnrot made his trips around Finland, Estonia and now Russia (Karelia), the people there must've had different meanings for similar things. There is this one thing about Ukko and Ilmarinen that is definitely regional difference for same person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukko Here it is what I meant. Also funny note that "perkele" is a common curse word in finnish culture today.
Some researchers believe that Ilmarinen, another Finnic sky god, is the origin of Ukko,[6][7] while some others believe that Ukko's original name was Baltic Perkele
According to Martti Haavio, the name Ukko was sometimes used as a common noun or generalised epithet for multiple deities instead of denoting a specific god
I kinda trust Martti Haavio's point of view on this one.

Not sure if this one correlates in anything with the things you read about history of Gods:
It is possible that when Ukko took the position of the preceding sky god Ilmarinen, Ilmarinen's destiny was to become a mortal smith-hero.
It sounds weird though, unless Ilmarinen was the one that turned sides as Enki did, so they needed a new name for the next guy in charge.

There is regional differencies in the meaning of words here as we say "vihta" in Häme, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banny_venik while in some other parts they use "vasta", which has other meaning also (just checked there is 8 adverbs for it in english :D). There are several other words that are like the ones in my example.
Enjoy the Silence

Post Reply