Purusha Sukta

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Gopi
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Purusha Sukta

Post by Gopi » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:31 pm

Hi All,

I had gone to meet a person by name of Satish Chandra yesterday. He had developed a device which was built based on the ideas in a piece of Vedic literature called the “Purusha Sukta”, which apparently outlines seven ways of generating energy, or ‘Purusha’. He has spent nearly 22 years in meditation and experimentation in order to develop this stuff, and as usual, has been ignored by the government.

I’ll first describe what I saw. There was a circular rotor in the center which was made of wood on the outside but which was quite thick, when I asked him about what it was he just mentioned ‘magnetic material’. Immediately adjacent to it on the rim of it, there were four boxes, each containing an alternator. All I saw was a wire leading out from it, to the output. These four outputs were connected to a few fluorescent lights and bulbs, fixed onto a board. The rotor was directly connected to a 126W motor.

{Bear, I am not able to attach bmp file! can you include that?]

The motor was switched on, which turned the rotor, and the tubelights plus bulbs lit up, with a combined wattage of 303W: 3 100W tubelights plus 3 small 1W bulbs in a series.

He mentioned that the magnetic field in the alternator was created by like poles instead of the normally used unlike pole field. This generates a non uniform flux, which is then ‘pressurized’ on to the rotor when the rotor is set in motion. The rotor communicates this flux change to the other alternators too, going in a cycle. Each alternator generates energy due to this flux change, independently.

There was another device along with which he had taken a photo too. The top part of the apparatus had a dish, with a focal point. The device looked similar to Tesla’s electroradiant energy absorber. This dish was connected to subsequent chambers, which he called by various names like ‘Prana’, ‘Vayu’ and then ‘Agni’. In the Prana chamber, the ‘electrons obtained from space’ are collected and transferred onto the air molecules-‘vayu’. This creates ions. These ions are further passed through a magnetic field, and get converted to plasma [agni]. This appeared a blue chamber, and in the seven directions around it, there were small bright spots, some means of extracting the seven phase supply. I didn’t understand anything from the picture though, and his explanations were tough to follow as the meanings he was attaching to normal words like agni and vayu were different.

I have gone thru the Purusha Sukta hymns, which are 24 in number, and the following are the verses which I think indicate what he has used…

1. The seven methods:
Verse 14:
candramA manaso jAta: | caksho sooryo ajAyata |
mukhaadeendrascAgnischa | prANAdvAyurajAyata || 13 ||

(manasa:) From his mind (candramA) was the moon (jAta:)
born. (caksho) from his eyes (soorya:) the sun was (ajAyata)
born. (mukhAd) From his mouth (indra-sca) Indra and (agni-sca)
Agni and (prANAt) from his breath (vAyu:) the wind (ajAyata:)
were born.

Verse 15:
nAbhyA Aseedantariksham | sheerSHNau dhyau: samavartata |
padbhyAm bhoomir disha: shrotrAt | tathA lokAm akalpayan || 14 ||

(nAbhyA) from his navel (Aseed) did appear (antariksham)
space. (sheerSHNa:) From his head was (dhyau:) the sky {Note: the root of this word means: to glow] (sam-avartat) well established. (padbhyAm) From his feet
(bhoomi) the earth (shrotrAt) from his ears (disha:) the directions
(tathA) This did they (akalpayan) by mere intent, that is sankalpa,
cause (lokAn) the worlds.
Then there is a description of the transfer of energy from the ‘space’ to practical application:
Verse 8
tam yajnam barhishi prokshan | purusham jAtam agrata: |
tena devA ayajanta | sAdhyA RshayaS ca ye || 8 ||

(tam) That (purusham) purusha (yajnam) of the sacrifice,
(jAtam) who was (agrata:) in the beginning,[NOTE: agrata means ‘at the Tip’ too] (sAdhyA:) those achievers (prokshan) sprinkled (barhishi) on the sacrificial bed of straw. (tena) By this means (devA
RshayaS ca) did the gods and the seers (ye) who where,
(ayajanta) sacrifice.
Verse 9
tasmAd yajnAt sarvahuta: | sambhRtam prshadAjyam |
pashUGs tAGS cakre vAyavyAn | AraNyAn grAmyAs ca ye || 8 ||

(tasmAt)From that (yajnAt) rite (sarvahuta:) called sarvahut
(sambhrtam) was gathered (prshad-Ajyam) ghee mixed with
yogurt. From this (cakre) were created (pashoon) beasts,
(vAyavyAn) denizens of the air, (AraNyAn) denizens of the
woods, (grAmyAn) and denizens of the villages.
Here the energy obtained seemed to be used in airplanes, and cars.
Verse 11
tasmAdashvA ajAyanta | ye ke cobhayAdata: |
gAvoham jagnyire tasmAt | tasmajjatA ajAvaya: || 10 ||

(tasmAd) From that (ajAyanta) were born (asvA:) horses,
and beings with (eke ca) only one and (ubhayAdata:) two
rows of teeth. (gAva:) Cattle (jagnyire) were made (tasmAt)
from that. (tasmAt) From that (jAta) were born (ajA:) goats
and (Avaya:) sheep.
All these are measurements of energy: Asva, gava, ajaa, and aavaya.
I am just beginning to scratch the surface, there is a LOT to understand in these verses…

Cheers,
Gopi
It is time.

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:39 pm

Gopi wrote:Bear, I am not able to attach bmp file! can you include that?
bmp files are too large, being uncompressed. You need to convert it to a gif or jpg file to upload. Most image programs have a "save as" where you can pick the type.

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:09 pm

Gopi wrote:The rotor was directly connected to a 126W motor.

The motor was switched on, which turned the rotor, and the tubelights plus bulbs lit up, with a combined wattage of 303W: 3 100W tubelights plus 3 small 1W bulbs in a series.
I think a good test of this device would be to plug it in to itself, while it is running. If it is producing 303W, and only draws 126W, then it should be able to power itself indefinitely.

Tube lights (fluorescent lamps) tend to have a high ignition current when the starter engages, but then drops off significantly after that, as the ionization in the tube increases.

Could you do a more appropriate translation on the verses using Chandra's definitions, so it would be easier to see the meaning in the verses? They are difficult to follow with the parenthesis and unusual spellings of words.

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Alluvion » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:29 pm

interesting gopi,
I als ohad a hard time correlating the passage with your interpretation - consider me completely stupid! : )

but definately interested.

_Adam

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Tulan » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:17 pm

Tell me if I am wrong, but, your description of his device bears quite a resemblance to a "backwards" Searle Effect Generator (SEG). In essence, the SEG has a central ring that does not move and it has outer rings moving along its perimeter. If I understood what you wrote correctly, the object you described, rather, has a central moving peice with stationary objects positioned strategically around its outer perimeter.

Only difference I see, is that the SEG does not use a uniform like pole configuration - rather, it still uses unlike poles but imprinted on what Searle called a magnetic wave form using both DC and AC. Apparently his stuff only worked 40 years ago, so i'm not sure if his method is actually a useful one, but the Archive does make reference to similar devices that use exterior rotating fields around a stationary center, or a stationary exterior with a rotating center.


Searle apparently created the 'Theory of the Squares' from a number of dreams, which gave him the equations for creating the correct material and geometrical proportions of his SEGs.

I have not yet actually looked into his 'Theory of the Squares' but it did sound interesting, you might take a look at it.

Cool post though, thanks.
Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Alluvion » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:30 pm

watching 'myth busters' on TLC the other day they were trying to test out various anti-gravity methods. What they basically myth-busted were magnetic devices, some kind of electronic-thrust method and a few others. But one interesting one used 3 conical shells nestled within one another but spaced apart by placing magnets along the rim of each cone and the rim of a tubular containing unit. The magnets are arranged in such a way as to caused alternating rotations of the 3 nestled cones. While it isn't clear from my memory, at some point this rotatio is transfered to a an axel with a wheel of wood on it. I don't remember why. The story behind is that the inventor is trying to replicate something he saw aboard a UFO( i know, break out the eye rolls) and was shown to him as the transporational mechanism of the craft. While it didn't create any antigravity (which was measured by a state of the art, incredibly sensitve gravity measuring device) it did create rather crude rotations int he cones.

Based on what the ra material states about the volumetic character of the cone as a 'power gathering' form, time/space gathering, and the use of space/time motion through magnetic rotation there might be something to creating a refined machine which can create incredibly high speed rotations using space/time magnetic forces and the 'power gathering' forces of the conic form...I am not sure, but isn't there some correlation between rotational speed and a decrease in gravity? I imagine the RPM would need to counter/exceed the actual rotational velocity of the earth but I am not sure why.

I've tried looking it up online but to avail as yet.

_Adam

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Alluvion » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:32 pm

thiking in terms of what little physics I do know - it would be easier to create highspeed rotations if the conic forms had a tighter radius, the ones used in the device had a diameter of at least 2 feet, so it was a small machine, but if they were more spindle like it might function to focus more time/space 'power' rather than more space/time 'power' - kind of like a magicians wand or a lightning rod.

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by LoneBear » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:13 pm

Tulan wrote:Tell me if I am wrong,
OK, you're wrong. :)
Tulan wrote:but, your description of his device bears quite a resemblance to a "backwards" Searle Effect Generator (SEG). In essence, the SEG has a central ring that does not move and it has outer rings moving along its perimeter. If I understood what you wrote correctly, the object you described, rather, has a central moving peice with stationary objects positioned strategically around its outer perimeter.
The design concepts are totally different, from what Gopi explained to me. I'm sure Chandra could fix his armature and spin the alternators to get the same effect, but he'd probably get the wiring all knotted up in the process.

The SEG is a series of cylindrical magnets set in a series of concentric rings about a stationary center (kind of like roller bearings), that when set in motion, stay in motion without the application of any external force. It comes from the unusual shape of the magnetic field of the cylindrical magnets, which are custom made. The SEG has no electrical component, at all. It is a magno-mechanical device which produces rotational torque to turn a generator.

Chandra's device is using the pressure created by like poles repelling, rather than crossing the magnetic lines of force with wiring. It does seem somewhat similar to Jimmy Saboris' engine design, which was based on the Paap engine.
Tulan wrote:Searle apparently created the 'Theory of the Squares' from a number of dreams, which gave him the equations for creating the correct material and geometrical proportions of his SEGs.
Keely has something similar; it has to do with the harmonic amplification of magnetic effects through sympathetic resonance. (Goes back to the music question I posed to Blue, with the tuning forks).

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Post by BlueEagle » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:36 pm

Using the tuning forks on a table creates enough energy loss from the waves traveling through the table that the system would not keep generating energy indefinitely. The sympathetic oscillation would cause the system to continue for a long time, but eventually it would succumb to friction basically. In the air, the air does not transfer enough energy to keep the tuning forks going for long either.

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by LoneBear » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:13 pm

BlueEagle wrote:Using the tuning forks on a table creates enough energy loss from the waves traveling through the table that the system would not keep generating energy indefinitely.
So, losses are minimized if the forks were suspended in the air from a fine thread, rather than a table?
BlueEagle wrote:In the air, the air does not transfer enough energy to keep the tuning forks going for long either.
What about with a more efficient medium of transmission, like oil?

I read someplace that the expert musicians consider the shape and layout of the auditorium, itself, as part of the process to determining where instruments are positioned on the stage. Kind of like the inverse of your zero room, which nullifies sound.

Keely talked about the placement of vibrators being critical in his devices; losses only occur when things are out of phase. All motion is conserved; it doesn't actually get "lost", it is converted into another, less-useful type of motion.

How could you set up a system of tuning forks to convert the losses into gains? There must be certain phase relationships with the vibrating components, with the medium, itself (air or oil), and the shape of the container/auditorium in which they are placed. Can a loss in one part of the system be transformed into a gain in another?

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Alluvion » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:25 am

as far as acoustic design for auditorium, the greatest factors are height to depth proportion, scale and material strategies. Architects usually work with acoustic engineers to determine how to design for losses due do to spatial configuration (height and depth proportion, formalized space (fan forms, box forms, ) scale (a black box theatre or a metripoliton symphonic hall are obviously to completely different animas) and how to reflect, absorb, diffuse or direct sound.

Parallel walls at certain spatial ratios cause flutter, where an echo occurs in such a way as to build up very soon after a sound is produced and tends to happen from reflections that occur on a perpendicular axis between source and receptor, while echo tends to happen with longer times along the axis of source and receptor. Scale and material layering affect the wavelength reflect - low soundwave require larger surfaces for reflection while small surfaces reflect smaller wavelengths respectivly. What also matters is if the materials are backing a hollow space, which becomes an amplifier like a drum, or a series of compressed layers meant to reflect certain frequencies and absorb others. One of the most absorpent things in an auditorum is the audience. Also, sound travels faster in a more fluid atmosphere - more heat and humidity.

so I guess this semester of environmental tech. didn't go entirely to waste : )

_A

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Post by BlueEagle » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:00 am

I read someplace that the expert musicians consider the shape and layout of the auditorium, itself, as part of the process to determining where instruments are positioned on the stage. Kind of like the inverse of your zero room, which nullifies sound.
I think that this would be the best way to conserve the energy lost through sound wave propagation. Because it would be hard to stop the sound from spreading out in all directions from the tunning forks (as is does naturally)

You will get different sounds in different parts of a room depending on where the sound source is because it will reflect differently in every room. Auditoriums are very complex because you have many different materials which change the frequency of a wave and because it has many different angles.
Keely talked about the placement of vibrators being critical in his devices; losses only occur when things are out of phase. All motion is conserved; it doesn't actually get "lost", it is converted into another, less-useful type of motion.


The 'loss' is the energy leaving the system that you control. So when you are using basic sympathetic resonance, you are 'loosing' a great deal of energy because usually you cannot get back the sound waves.

However, I think that the reflection of the sounds waves is important. If you had a sphere (metal perhaps) and filled it will a dense liquid, it would be very good a conserving energy, because the molecules of the liquid are much closer together, and most of the 'lost' energy would be reflected back to the tunning fork in the center. A very big sphere, with many tunning forks...

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Gopi » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:45 am

Could you do a more appropriate translation on the verses using Chandra's definitions, so it would be easier to see the meaning in the verses? They are difficult to follow with the parenthesis and unusual spellings of words.
I have written down a letter-by-letter translation for my reference, and I'll give the feedback after meeting Chandra again in a couple of days.
It is time.

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by LoneBear » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:47 pm

Gopi wrote:I have written down a letter-by-letter translation for my reference, and I'll give the feedback after meeting Chandra again in a couple of days.
Take pictures if he will let you!

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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Starlight* » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:30 am

This is interesting!

And I can see it from a different perspective.

Thanks!


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Purusha Sukta contd

Post by Gopi » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:13 pm

I met him again, and this time he was a bit more open about giving me some details.

Code: Select all

sahasra SIrshA purusha:  |  sahasrAksha: sahasrapAt  |
sa bhUmim vishvato vRtvA  | atyatishTad daSAngulam  || 1 ||

Sahasra: thousand/many
SIrsha: heads/sources
sahasrAksha: many eyes/lens
sahasrapat: many feet/foot of the rays
sa bhumim: alongwith the earth
vishvato vrtva: surrounding the universe
atyatishtad: stands
dashaangulam: the ten divisions/directions

The stars and the sun are the source for the energy [purusha] which can be converted to solar energy by concentrating with many lens and the energy can be obtained in the ten divisions, that is the eight directions, plus vertically up and down.

Again:
Sahasraaksha: many positive charges [a+ksha..unceasing output]
Sahasrapaat: many negative charges [paat=to fall, to attract]
SIrsha: gadgets[heads!]
Vrtva: beyond
Sabhumim vishvato: earth and sky.. i.e. leaving out earth and sky, the remaining eight directions
Dashangulam: ten directions
Dash+vrtva= drustva: facing each other… the like poles, positive or negative
Atyatishtat: made to stand, pressurized [akin to putting like poles face to face]
Sa Bhumim: like earth, a rotating piece
vrtVa: revolving [note: vrtva root is also vrut, meaning circle]
purusha: will become energy


And:

Code: Select all

tripAd Urdhva udait purusha: | pAdo 'syehAbhavatpuna: |
tato vishva.n vyakrAmat | sASanAnaSane abhi || 4 ||
tripad: three phases
Urdhva, udait: stepped up, stepped down/ alternative current
Pado asya: its one limb, or one quarter
Puna: is used again
The rest: consumed by all the beings, those alive and those not.

Meaning: 1/4th of this energy is continually used and reused by all the living and non living beings.

Now we have an idea of how he has built the first generator. There is a central rotating piece, and the static alternator has like poles facing each other, and an armature in between collecting the current. The ‘head’s are supposed to be 8 in number, one in each direction, but he has used 4 for convenience. These are the 4 alternators seen.

The piece rotating like earth is the central piece, and this serves the purpose of alternating the current, by way of transferring among all the alternators.

The measurements for this are also obtained from the same letters, with various anagrams and permutations… e.g. dashangulam also means ten inches. Apparently, there is a 300page volume worth of material for every letter used in this.
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The setup...
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His file image... showing it to reporters.
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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Gopi » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:04 am

Code: Select all

candramA manaso jAta: | caksho sooryo ajAyata |
mukhaadeendrascAgnischa | prANAdvAyurajAyata || 13 ||
chandramaa: moon based- tidal force - hydel power
manasa: mind, as the mind wishes, uncertain
jaata: is born. [Ja = birth]
suryo: from the sun, solar
chaksho: eyes/ limited.
mukhaat: from the face/ primarily [mukhya=of primary importance]
indra: Svarga or heaven, mainly ion-based

[Actually, Indra was supposed to have a thousand eyes on him due to a curse from a sage. the 'eyes' here refer to many things, among them charge is one. Hence it is a reference to ions]

agni: from heat/fire.
ajaayat : is generated
praNat: from Prana, pra+aN, or "from anu" i.e.atomic power
Vayur: from air.


The energy, purusha, is obtained from the hydel power, but that's a bit uncertain, wavy, periodic, like the moon's cycles. This may be a reference to the periodic monsoons. It can be obtained from the sun, but that is pretty limited too. Mainly one has to rely on the energy from 'space' or heaven, and from heat [fossil fuels]. Even atomic energy and wind energy can be used.

Code: Select all

nAbhyA Aseedantariksham | sheerSHNau dhyau: samavartata |
padbhyAm bhoomir disha: shrotrAt | tathA lokAm akalpayan || 14 ||
nAbhi: navel/focus point.
Aseet: is there
antariksham: 'sky'
Sheershna: treasure of energy/ ionosphere
samavartata: sam+ avartata = surrounds on all sides
sama + vartata = a replica of that
dyau: 'heaven' or the glowing source.
padbhyaam: at the feet/on the ground
bhumirdisha: in all directions on earth
Shrotat: can be heard
tathaa lokam akalpayan: thus the world is made to know of this.

A replica of the sky is made, like the dish antenna, and at the centre [naabhi], the charges are collected. The ionosphere surrounding the earth is supposed to be the source of these electrons, or the maximum of this sort of energy generation can be obtained in the ionosphere [either of the two meanings, I am not sure which]. It doesn't matter what direction the Naabhi is pointed in.
The charges go thru a collection chamber called Prana, and then thru a chamber of Vayu, or gases, whence the gas is ionised. That is passed thru 'Indra' [some kind of filter] and then enters Agni, where a strong magnetic field is supposed to be there, and the electrodes are present in this chamber, with a seven phase generation. It then passes thru Surya, which is the circuit breaker... and Chandra is the cooling tower.

He didn't give too many details about the construction, he said it would take LONG while to do that. But the main point is that the same letters and words are taken back and forth, combined and everything, to give different layers of meanings.

Example:

Code: Select all

saptAsyA san paridaya: | tri: sapta: samida: krtA: |
sapta: seven
asya san paridaaya: are its phases
trisapta: seven cubed
sapta samidha kruta: seven power twenty one.
tri sapta samidha kruta: 3*7^21.

These are the two limits of voltage that can be generated... 7^3 and 3*7^21.

More later...
Merry Christmas!

Gopi
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Diagram that he showed me...
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Re: Purusha Sukta

Post by Starlight* » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:08 pm

the vibrations of the sound/s are contained within the wooded box and brings together a resonance within it.

Last night, Jim, Carla and I set out to church. As Jim and I were sitting on the church benches, conversing, I noticed and felt vibrations on my back each time Jim spoke. I wondered if that had anything to do with the sound boucing from the from frontbench to the bench we were sitting on.

Is it possible that the solidity of the benches have anything to do with sensing the sound vibrations?
He didn't give too many details about the construction, he said it would take LONG while to do that. But the main point is that the same letters and words are taken back and forth, combined and everything, to give different layers of meanings.
tickled pink! I do see some, i will look futher into it.

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