Star Trek

Discussion of Science Fiction motifs, symbols and allegory.
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Gopi
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Star Trek

Post by Gopi » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:00 am

How come this was missing in the list!

I have been pondering the kind of characters present in the series, and noticed that the concept of a Vulcan was what was very intriguing -- NO show of emotion, running on logic, and also, as a paradox, one of the most intimate form of telepathy formed when it comes to the family, like Mind Melding and things. What is your opinion about this character?

I find these "Hybrids" most interesting... Spock is half Vulcan. Delenn is half Minbari in B5. As is Valen. Is this just a way to represent the putting together of the various personalities in the psyche?
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Re: Star Trek

Post by LoneBear » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:05 pm

Gopi wrote:I have been pondering the kind of characters present in the series, and noticed that the concept of a Vulcan was what was very intriguing -- NO show of emotion, running on logic, and also, as a paradox, one of the most intimate form of telepathy formed when it comes to the family, like Mind Melding and things. What is your opinion about this character?
I beg your pardon, but I resemble that remark! My nickname was "Mr. Spock" all through high school... I don't even think some of my classmates knew my real name.

I think Spock epitomizes the concept of 3rd density quite well; overly emotional mother (anima), totally intellectual father (animus). Had to learn to overcome the excess emotions/feelings not native to a Vulcan to live in the world, overcompensated to the intellectual side, then finally went through a death/rebirth (making his 3rd density choice) and achieved balance. Basically the alchemical process of self-integration.
Gopi wrote:I find these "Hybrids" most interesting... Spock is half Vulcan. Delenn is half Minbari in B5. As is Valen. Is this just a way to represent the putting together of the various personalities in the psyche?
Delenn was originally all Minbari, with a trace of human blood line, until she underwent metamorphosis to become a half-breed. The stated purpose on the show was to provide a link between Minbari and Terrans (or should I say a "relationship" between them?)

Delenn always emphasized that this was "her calling"... a spiritual devotion, agap

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Re: Star Trek

Post by Alluvion » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:56 pm

gotta clean up your room before you can clean up the city!

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Re: Star Trek

Post by LoneBear » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:13 pm

Alluvion wrote:gotta clean up your room before you can clean up the city!
The room and the city are One.

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Re: Star Trek

Post by Alluvion » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:39 am

what I mean is - the personal unconscious needs to be reckoned with before any other larger scale contents can be broached, and then eventually the spiritual and conscious. The room and the city maybe one but we must get out of bed, get cleaned and dressed, and walk out the door.

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Re: Star Trek

Post by polonious21 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:04 am

Belana Torez was a hybrid too, klingon and human. Id mixing with SuperEgo. But Gopi I think the Betazoids are far more telepathic than the vulcans are on a normal basis. Mind-meld is very rarely used. It isn't that Vulcans don't feel, it is that they control their emotions. natural Vulcan feelings are volitile and hostile. They are prone to homicidal rage and paranioa if they cannot control themselves. However, we also see Vulcans forming friendships and deep loves. Spock's best friend is Kirk and he would go to the ends of the galexy for him. Tuvok has close frineds aboard Voyager but he also has a deep lasting love for his wife. And how about the Pon Farr? The time when Vulcans have an overwhelming drive to mate? If they are not careful they can completely lose control. Look up Vulcans on Wikipedia, maybe that will help.

(sorry guys I'm a huge trekkie :D )
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Re: Star Trek

Post by LoneBear » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:40 am

polonious21 wrote:Belana Torez was a hybrid too, klingon and human. Id mixing with SuperEgo.
Perhaps more like human Ego and Klingon SuperEgo... as I recall, B'Elanna was dead set against the metaphysical and paranormal, which are typically attributes of the Self breaking through. She literally had to have the mythos of Gre'thor and Sto-Vo-Kor pounded into her through the death of her mother. And as I recall, she also tended to avoid all the customary Klingon rituals, which were spiritual rights of passage.
polonious21 wrote:But Gopi I think the Betazoids are far more telepathic than the vulcans are on a normal basis.
The Betazoids are the conjugate of the Vulcans; feeling and empathy on the Betazoid side, logic and telepathy on the Vulcan. A Betazoid/Vulcan half-breed would be a rather optimal combination, much like a metaphysical hermaphrodite.

I also noticed that half-breeds are usually half human... kind of gives a clue as to what mankind has been up to, when exploring the Universe!

Something else I noticed was that Star Trek stayed well away from gay/bisexual relationships. Doctor Who and Torchwood had a major character that was bisexual (Captain Jack Harkness), which I thought was pretty funny as he'd hit on every one and every thing, including the Doctor! But it was a pretty tough stretch of imagination to believe that Doctor Julian Bashir was straight... always thought he and Garak had something going on the side!

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Re: Star Trek

Post by polonious21 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:35 pm

polonious21 wrote:But it was a pretty tough stretch of imagination to believe that Doctor Julian Bashir was straight... always thought he and Garak had something going on the side!
LOL yeah I agree. I loved the character Garek though. He was just so ruthless.
The character Jedzia Dax was kind of sexually questionable. Yes she was a beautiful woman but Sisko always called her old man and her simbiate had been a male in so many past lives.
By the way i always thought the relationship between Nelix and Kess was weird. She was like 2 yrs old (and only 11yrs in human time). He was kind of like a father figure to her but they deffinatly a couple. Strange.
What about Q? I always loved him too. What are your thoughts on him?
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Re: Star Trek

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:00 am

polonious21 wrote:The character Jedzia Dax was kind of sexually questionable. Yes she was a beautiful woman but Sisko always called her old man and her simbiate had been a male in so many past lives.
Bashir was always chasing after that "old man", wasn't he! They really mistyped that character.
polonious21 wrote:By the way i always thought the relationship between Nelix and Kess was weird. She was like 2 yrs old (and only 11yrs in human time). He was kind of like a father figure to her but they deffinatly a couple. Strange.
That one never felt quite right to me, too. Got the impression that Nelix treated her more like a pet Ocampan than a girlfriend. She would have been better off with Harry Kim.
polonious21 wrote:What about Q? I always loved him too. What are your thoughts on him?
I absolutely hated "Q" when the character premiered on Star Trek, the Next Generation. I'd almost turn off the episodes when he showed up. Based on the trickster god Loki, and the writers just massacred the archetype. But I changed my mind when he showed up on Voyager, with the "is this a ship of the Valkyries?" comment, zinging Janeway pretty good! IMHO, the Q/Janeway interaction was much better than Q/Picard. Of course, Cisco punching him square in the jaw was pretty good, too.

My favorite Voyager character is "7 of 9" (or as most guys call her, "7 of 9 D"). I guess I identify her with that struggle to break free of the collective unconscious.

Have you seen the latest "classic" Star Trek movie, "Of Gods and Men", where Uhura finally gets a leading role? Pretty good; they tie together a lot of old characters and actors, from all the Trek incarnations.

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Re: Star Trek

Post by Gopi » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:56 am

Ok, I guess I am way behind on the Star Trek symbols, mostly due to my background of Indian epics. But then, maybe I am a trekkie of a different kind!
Polonius wrote:And how about the Pon Farr? The time when Vulcans have an overwhelming drive to mate? If they are not careful they can completely lose control.
LOL, tell me about it!
LoneBear wrote:Something else I noticed was that Star Trek stayed well away from gay/bisexual relationships.
I did read a Star Trek book a few days back, which had M'k'n'zy Calhoun and his gang on the Excalibur. In that there was a character called Burgoyne, who was bisexual, from the Hermat race. There were all kinds of weird pronouns... s/he, hir, hish, etc. Is this outside the mainstream?
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Re: Star Trek

Post by LoneBear » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:10 pm

Gopi wrote:I did read a Star Trek book a few days back, which had M'k'n'zy Calhoun and his gang on the Excalibur. In that there was a character called Burgoyne, who was bisexual, from the Hermat race. There were all kinds of weird pronouns... s/he, hir, hish, etc. Is this outside the mainstream?
Books don't count, since hardly anybody reads anymore!

Though the Star Trek movies did try putting guys in dresses (called "skants" instead of skirts), but that never went over well.

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Re: Star Trek

Post by polonious21 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:12 pm

Yeah I remember them! Not dresses as much as short skirts. Weird!! I'm glad they dropped that idea. Those leggs were pretty chalky! :)
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Re: Star Trek

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:29 pm

MrTwig wrote:Right now I am watching Star Trek: The Next Generation with the episode "The Next Phase" on the BBCA channel. It is about phasing and the cloaking device on a Romulan ship. Jordy and Ro were phased in a transporter accident. It is amazing the timing of this because of the virtual reality type settings. Ro thought they were dead but Jordy thought that something scientific had happen because of all his technical knowledge. I see Daniel's papers as the technical knowledge we need to figure out what is really going on and your experiences to learn to break free of wrong beliefs.
That's one of my favorite TNG episodes (that, and the Stargate SG-1 episode, "Crystal Skull", where something similar happens to Daniel). The "going out of phase" is a fairly common motif in Sci-Fi, which indicates some kind of apprehension that things like this can be done.

Since we can only observe and measure spatial displacement, anything that is cosmic (temporal) is invisible to us. That's why we don't "see" Larson's cosmic sector, nor force fields. Because the mind/soul is also temporal in nature (see daniel's paper on Homo Sapiens Ethicus), the anima (soul or mind) is invisible to our physical senses, except through the way it affects space--psionic ability and the aura of bioenergy.

Some of the LMs have the ability to make themselves invisible by this same cloaking/phasing technique. As I understand it, the ability arises from using their flying craft--something to do with the vibratory fields that impose a resonance on biological life, that allows life to alter the body/anima phase relationship. However, it is a cumulative ionization--after a while, it gets rather dangerous to make the transition between phase states, and can sometimes lead to "getting stuck," or even spontaneous combustion (as what happened during the Montauk invisibility experiments). So probably don't want to try this at home!

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Re: Star Trek

Post by MrTwig » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:02 pm

LoneBear wrote:
MrTwig wrote:Right now I am watching Star Trek: The Next Generation with the episode "The Next Phase" on the BBCA channel. It is about phasing and the cloaking device on a Romulan ship. Jordy and Ro were phased in a transporter accident. It is amazing the timing of this because of the virtual reality type settings. Ro thought they were dead but Jordy thought that something scientific had happen because of all his technical knowledge. I see Daniel's papers as the technical knowledge we need to figure out what is really going on and your experiences to learn to break free of wrong beliefs.
That's one of my favorite TNG episodes (that, and the Stargate SG-1 episode, "Crystal Skull", where something similar happens to Daniel). The "going out of phase" is a fairly common motif in Sci-Fi, which indicates some kind of apprehension that things like this can be done.

Since we can only observe and measure spatial displacement, anything that is cosmic (temporal) is invisible to us. That's why we don't "see" Larson's cosmic sector, nor force fields. Because the mind/soul is also temporal in nature (see daniel's paper on Homo Sapiens Ethicus), the anima (soul or mind) is invisible to our physical senses, except through the way it affects space--psionic ability and the aura of bioenergy.

Some of the LMs have the ability to make themselves invisible by this same cloaking/phasing technique. As I understand it, the ability arises from using their flying craft--something to do with the vibratory fields that impose a resonance on biological life, that allows life to alter the body/anima phase relationship. However, it is a cumulative ionization--after a while, it gets rather dangerous to make the transition between phase states, and can sometimes lead to "getting stuck," or even spontaneous combustion (as what happened during the Montauk invisibility experiments). So probably don't want to try this at home!
Just reminded me of an OST episode where they took some liquid and sped up to the point of invisibility. Kirk I believe fix the Enterprise in record time! or was it Spock. Same situation if someone took to much of the liquid they burned up.
I have read Home Sapiens Ethicus and agree that we are approaching a time where things will be very different than now. For me, I seem to see the world as speeding up. Can't remember a time when thing happened this fast. Gee, I hope the world doesn't burn up going so fast.

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Re: Star Trek Voyager

Post by pgolde » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:19 am

Just watched "Distant Origin" episode on the Star Trek Voyager series. Very interesting. My wife said the ruler of the Voth reminded her of Hillary Clinton, too funny, as my wife is not very political or into scifi like I have been. Years ago, this series or the SG1 series were not my favorite, although I watched them, not with much interest or insight. These days I am revisiting all of these series with a new mind. It is a lot more fun.
I am grateful for forums like this and CH to help me keep my sanity. I never stop being amazed learning what is available here, I just wish I had more time to research and practice more, learn more. Not enough hours in the day.

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Re: Star Trek Voyager

Post by LoneBear » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:10 am

pgolde wrote:Just watched "Distant Origin" episode on the Star Trek Voyager series. Very interesting. My wife said the ruler of the Voth reminded her of Hillary Clinton, too funny, as my wife is not very political or into scifi like I have been. Years ago, this series or the SG1 series were not my favorite, although I watched them, not with much interest or insight. These days I am revisiting all of these series with a new mind. It is a lot more fun.
Originally, I did not care for Voyager, either, as it looked just like an upgraded "Lost in Space," minus Will and the Robot (Wesley and Data on ST-TNG), though you could probably consider Paris and the Doctor the same way. I kept waiting for the Doctor to start waving his arms, saying, "Danger Tom Paris!" during one of Tom's "Captain Proton" episodes. I also never cared for "Q" -- until he showed up on the Voyager, then I changed my mind. That Valkyrie crack to Janeway just put me on the floor.

My favorite Voyager character was "7 of 9," being the only one on the show that had both intelligence and common sense.
pgolde wrote:I am grateful for forums like this and CH to help me keep my sanity. I never stop being amazed learning what is available here, I just wish I had more time to research and practice more, learn more. Not enough hours in the day.
That's done deliberately; as long as you are spending your time trying to survive, you can't improve yourself or assist others. Plus the added bonus of having to buy everything from megacorps, rather than do it yourself.

That's why I have the Sanctuary Project--people need a place where they HAVE the time to study and think, in a comfortable though not exotic environment. When I was younger, I believed that technology would provide the tool to do that, as those were the days when people believed that tech made our lives easier--before we became slaves to it. Now my perspective has done a 180, much more like the Ba'ku of Star Trek Insurrection (which was based on my favorite film, Lost Horizon). I find it far more enjoyable to bake a loaf of fresh bread, than to buy a bagged loaf. But I still use an oven to bake it.

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Re: Star Trek

Post by Ilkka » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:32 am

LoneBear wrote:Plus the added bonus of having to buy everything from megacorps, rather than do it yourself.

That's why I have the Sanctuary Project--people need a place where they HAVE the time to study and think, in a comfortable though not exotic environment. When I was younger, I believed that technology would provide the tool to do that, as those were the days when people believed that tech made our lives easier--before we became slaves to it. Now my perspective has done a 180, much more like the Ba'ku of Star Trek Insurrection (which was based on my favorite film, Lost Horizon). I find it far more enjoyable to bake a loaf of fresh bread, than to buy a bagged loaf. But I still use an oven to bake it.
I for one am not able to do everything myself mainly because of lack of land owning and money :D in this country there are these stupid eurolaws that prevent having just a few farm animals for ones own cattle purposes and then there is the taxes that are huge for everything. So my only option remains to support organic food products which cost more than the regular stuff. Also in Finland there are two main trading companies that decides what they sell to us. Only thing I own in this country is the clothes in my back, car and my personal property in this rental apartment. I have decided that I wouldnt get alot of stuff that would need taking care of, because I dont want the extra responsibility, for now.

I am able to do cooking myself that I've been doing few years now. I buy raw groceries and cook my every meal, other stuff gives me heartburn so cant eat that stuff and sometimes when I go eat to my moms or grandmoms their food gives me heartburn also. So I rather choose my ingredients to suit me and do it myself.
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