Poll Under Pressure

[daniel]

Most home pressure cookers are built to maintain a low and high pressure setting.
Almost all home cooking units will employ a very simple single-stage pressure regulator.
Older models will simply use a small weight on top of an opening that will jiggle to allow excess pressure to escape.
Newer models usually incorporate a spring loaded valve that lifts and allows pressure to escape as pressure in the vessel rises.

[daniel]

The question is testing something very simple... is this a "trick question" or am I just stating something very obvious, right from the Wikipedia, trying to make you think it is a trick question?

Hummm... no emoticon for "sinister laugh," so...

Professor Chaos Strikes Again!

SinisterLaugh.jpg (22.73 KiB) Viewed 12046 times

[Djchrismac]

I'm going to be awkward and use my choice to not vote, since I feel there are too many variables in the statements (most/almost/usually) and lumping them into a true or false category doesn't seem appropriate or relevant to the statements. All four statements can be both true and false, depending on the circumstances.

So I choose option 3, trick question, not playing....

[dave432]

I would say the statements are neither true nor false because in statement one you refer to home pressure cookers (never saw a pressure cooker used away from a home), but in statement two you refer to home cooking units, which are what... grills, propane stoves and possibly pressure cookers? So by "older models" and "newer models", do you mean pressure cookers, grills (indoor grills or outdoor ones?) or stoves? So, in this case, I think the only winning move is not to play.

Seeing the word "home" twice gives a nice little feeling and of course we all want the newest appliances for our nice homes, so I wonder if you've ever worked in advertising? They could use you.

[daniel]

Seeing the word "home" twice gives a nice little feeling and of course we all want the newest appliances for our nice homes, so I wonder if you've ever worked in advertising? They could use you.

It is a direct quote from Wikipedia: Pressure Regulator, so not my words.

Consider... if you were researching pressure regulators and happened to stumble across the Wikipedia article on them and read that quote, would you have had even the slightest desire to question what it said?

[pgolde]

I replied true, as one of 2 votes, based on my recent purchase of a pressure caner. Although I did read it two or three times to be sure there was no logical fallacy.
I don't see how any of the statements are false, especially due to no use of absolutes, none are absolutely true or absolutely false. My cooker came with a single stage pressure relief valve with high and low settings, for the higher pressure, add the second weight. The spring loaded thingy is usually in newer models, not all, but it does exist.

[dave432]

Seeing the word "home" twice gives a nice little feeling and of course we all want the newest appliances for our nice homes, so I wonder if you've ever worked in advertising? They could use you.

It is a direct quote from Wikipedia: Pressure Regulator, so not my words.

Consider... if you were researching pressure regulators and happened to stumble across the Wikipedia article on them and read that quote, would you have had even the slightest desire to question what it said?

Without the logic discussions here lately and a previous logic class, I pretty much doubt I would have questioned it. As mentioned on another thread here or on CH, our English teacher once had us go through the different newspapers covering the same story and we all discovered the slant that each paper was going for depending on the exact words chosen, especially words used to describe people. Then the opinion the paper wanted you to have about that person was automatically set in your head unless you were aware of what they were doing. So, yes I am on the lookout for this sort of thing, but the pressure cooker language might have gotten overlooked.

Has anyone eaten food prepared in a pressure cooker? They're great when your mouth is sensitive or you've had dental work and can't chew very well or you're having some digestion problems. For meat eaters, the meat comes out very tender.

Hopefully, the advertising comment came out in a joking manner, the way it was intended. That's why I try to make sure my comments are clear when posting something, but it's difficult. That's what emoticons are for, but I rarely think to use them.

[tymeflyz]

i'll bite!

[quote="daniel"]Most home pressure cookers are built to maintain a low and high pressure setting.
Almost all home cooking units will employ a very simple single-stage pressure regulator.

1st two sentences are true...ahhhhh... not so much, but for the sake of poll -ok.
second and third are true also if pressure relief or pressure maintained would be involved as was "implied" .

lack of distinction of type of "home cooking unit" is questionable as true as
1- pressure cooker -yes -fwiw is the only pressure unit i know of for home/consumer.
2-all other NON-pressure units -no need for a pressure relief.

did i fail ???? ah shit..i cant answer a simple question .

[LoneBear]

You have to remember that this is a quote from the Wikipedia... written by the twins, Ego and Ignorance.

I find this conversation fascinating... you've got your cop-outs (fear of retribution of getting it wrong), and the guessers whom split down the middle with true/false. Nothing personal here, but the analysis posted is completely materialistic--concerning the devices, themselves. Since this question was prompted by an RS discovery recently made (and from which Aaron, Chris and Deepfsh should now have definitive answers), I will add two further "truths" to it:

"Older models will simply use a small weight on top of an opening that will jiggle" -- is TRUE
"Newer models usually incorporate a spring loaded valve that lifts" -- is TRUE

With the "materialistic" aspect of the question now resolved, is the Ideal true or false? As they said in my day, "it's a gas!"

(If you study this, you can learn a great deal about the way you think... particularly how you get tricked into thinking a specific way.)

[tymeflyz]

snidely whiplash

[pgolde]

With the "materialistic" aspect of the question now resolved, is the Ideal true or false? As they said in my day, "it's a gas!"

I never studied thermodynamics.
Maybe I should since I am writing control logic for such processes presently. Controlling concentration of gas using pressure and temperature, pressure is controlled using a mass flow controller and a vacuum pump. I simply use the supplied gas curves, the rest is a balancing act, tuning using PID algorithms. Viewing the physical changes, I can control whats going on without understanding why. At the time I might be more thinking about what's for lunch, maybe some pressure cooked bird?

[daniel]

With the poll concluded, most people got it right... these are incorrect statements:

Older models will simply use a small weight on top of an opening that will jiggle to allow excess pressure to escape.
Newer models usually incorporate a spring loaded valve that lifts and allows pressure to escape as pressure in the vessel rises.

The "why" is actually quite simple... pressure is force per unit area and therefore has no physical properties that can "escape" anywhere. What the valves do is allow a volume of whatever is inside to escape (usually hot air), and according to basic gas laws, PV=nRT... the pressure reduces with the loss of volume. So technically it would be to "allow a volume to escape, reducing internal pressure."

The psychology behind the replies, however, is far more interesting than the actual poll result.

[joeyv23]

With the poll concluded, most people got it right... these are incorrect statements:

Older models will simply use a small weight on top of an opening that will jiggle to allow excess pressure to escape.
Newer models usually incorporate a spring loaded valve that lifts and allows pressure to escape as pressure in the vessel rises.

Had narrowed it down to those two lines, but couldn't put a finger as to why it felt like false information. The intuitive impulse was correct. The intellect didn't pick up the slack and explain why and it's for this reason that I'm only just now joining the conversation. What with this change of the guard I'm working through as indicated elsewhere in the fora, I figure a gap will be bridged (or a drawbridge lowered), and next time around it won't be like trying to see to the bottom of a murky moat. The pH level will have balanced out, the water will clear up, and the answer won't be as elusive.

[LoneBear]

Had narrowed it down to those two lines, but couldn't put a finger as to why it felt like false information. The intuitive impulse was correct. The intellect didn't pick up the slack and explain why and it's for this reason that I'm only just now joining the conversation.

Here is another one for your "list" on your forum... "look beyond what is said, to find the implied meaning" ("reading between the lines," as it was called)...

With the "materialistic" aspect of the question now resolved, is the Ideal true or false? As they said in my day, "it's a gas!"

PV=nRT IS the "Ideal Gas law"... forces and pressure, being energy, are cosmic, hence the "material" aspect is not the problem. I even capitalized "Ideal" when it should not have been.

This is why the alchemists referred to the "Muggles" as caecus, a blind person, and why you see people in the old alchemical paintings walking around with blindfolds on. They don't see what is right in front of them, because they have never learned how to look.

(And yes, many of my posts usually contain these "subtleties"...)