Classes and Grades

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How should the classes be divided in a school?

According to age/experience... as is currently done
3
27%
According to 'intelligence'... say: dull, bright, cutting-edge
3
27%
According to Personality
5
45%
No classes thank you, teach them all the same.
0
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Total votes: 11

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Classes and Grades

Post by Gopi » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:54 am

In view of some discussions about education in general, how do you feel a school should divide it's classes/grades? Grades in the sense of 1st grade, 2nd grade... and not the grades for performance. It is called Standard in the UK I think, viz 1st Std, 2nd Std... 12th Std.

Think wide, the Urantia book gives an example: A school where in each 'batch' teaches the batch before it and learns from the batch above it, and the Teachers are the 'supervisors'.
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Re:

Post by BlueEagle » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:43 pm

What I envision is a system where a group of people get together who are interested in learning the same thing. Then they can ask a teacher to come teach them. The group is responsible for asking questions, while the teacher is responsible for pushing on those questions and for those questions not asked.

The group would also be responsible for helping each other, and for experimenting on their own. So the more alike their personalities, and their interests, the better.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Alluvion » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:56 am

i see the soul of education as the evolution of consciousness - for that it needs to be creative and reflective, more process focused and not 'results' focused.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Starlight* » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:10 pm

I think all responses have some good point. But, the poll requests a choice.

So, I say,

By interests. Where there's an interest there's more focused effort.

My understanding, the focused is the result, to process is to arrive at the result. The processed is the realization or understanding. Looking at it from the education of the soul, which evolves the knowing.


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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by zenmaster » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:49 am

I think personality would be the best choice, if by "personality" it is meant nothing less than the projection of the soul. However, people tend to only have a superficial understanding of personality. A large part of what we are learning in formal and informal education is our Self makeup (which is our personality), so using Personality is a chicken and egg problem. That is, unless there are some really wise "teachers" capable of creating some kind of personality based class-division criteria. Given that everyone has a unique personality, how to choose what works best would need to come from a psychology that we don't yet have.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by LoneBear » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:47 pm

As someone whom has taught High School, tutored college students and been a professional instructor in business, it has been my experience that "experience" is the best teacher. You can talk out theory ad nauseum, but until you actually get out and DO something, you don't really learn much. And by DO-ING, I mean either of the rational valuing systems, thinking or feeling.

Feeling is easy, go out and get whacked on the head with a baseball bat, or take an emotional fling. You'll feel it. But I've found that most people don't understand the 'thinking' aspect of learning--that is what the idea of "labs" are about in school, the application of knowledge to practical use through the thinking process. Unfortunately, most students treat lab work as just a recipe and don't bother to think about what is going on.

For example, you can study all the electrical theory you want, but until you actually start to wire up some invention, you really haven't "learned" anything. Practice can poke quite a few holes in what you think you understand.

I like the idea of each student also being a teacher, but the inherent problem with that is the loss and distortion that occurs. There was a game we played at kids, which we called "gossip fence". We'd get about 20 kids sitting on the fence, and someone would write something down on a slip of paper, then whisper it to the person next to them, all the way down the line. The last person would write down what they were told, then we'd compare the slips of paper. Unless you started with just a couple of words, the end result were two completely unrelated concepts.

Error increases with complexity; say the message was, "the pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true." 20 people later, you'd get "the crew from the castle is drunk".

There needs to be some type of positive feedback loop for the student/teacher system, so rather than distorting information, it clarifies it. If a progression is used, like "grades", then the advancement of the teacher would be based on how well the student's students learned. If a student wanted to move from 6th to 7th grade (teaching 5th), then you would check the 4th graders what his 5th grade students were taught.

You need feedback and you need testing, though I don't agree with existing "testing" procedures. I totally disagree with Alluvion; all learning is result-based and if you take that out of the feedback loop, then you won't get learning, you'll get degeneration to the lowest common denominator, and from what I've seen, there isn't a bottom to that. If you are incapable of learning along a specific path, then you should change paths--not demand the teacher stop "judging you" on your failures. And as proof I give you the American Education System, one of the best in the world in 1950, and one of the worst in the world in 2000. Why? They keep lowering the "standards" (the expected results) and are busy on finding creative answers to "2+2", to keep everybody happy and entertained.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Alluvion » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:49 pm

by results based I mean that testing system - its not an indication of knowledge based on experience, 'real knowing', its a test of the faculty of memorization of facts and clever strategies for taking tests.

things people want to learn, they will create a gravity towards, and constantly re-choosing to address that makes it easier to choose it again.

in design school, when you get to a certain point in the curriculum you can be a ta, you can ta the years below you with a graduate ta/professor, who is supervised by a professor. All of that reflection goes back into the faculty which then reforms the curriculum - we are all both agents and subjects in this system - participating (being subjected too, reflecting on) at many levels. But not everyone goes through this process, just those interested in that process.

The greatest source of entropy for the instructors is the lack of interest and attention of the class - you know how it is, repeating the same thing over and over again and then at the end of the semester realizing that it still was lost in the air (for some students at least).

how can you predict the result and then try and force things towards that? each person will evolve at their own rate and along their own path, those that move quicker do so when they take the wheel of their own evolution, awaken to their own will.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Paduwan Sagar » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:59 am

I partly agree with the idea of the division of classes according to interests( But interests need to be created.A student cannot be interested in a subject he doesn't know.I will say a "positive attitude towards learning").The main duty of the students is to follow the teacher's instructions.They should be receptive to new ideas.The teachers only need students who listen to them;a listening student and a devoted teacher can work wonders--they can rouse interest in the students about almost any subject.

Another thing which is necessary is the interaction between teachers and students.Most of the students feel inferior to ask doubts.This Chinese proverb caught my eye:"Ask a question and remain a fool for a minute, don't ask a question and remain a fool forever."Absolutely true, isn't it? :D

I recently attended a workshop where we played some team games.In one such game, four volunteers were called.The first person was asked to make ten paper swans in ten minutes.The second one was given a sheet which showed the steps to prepare the swan and was asked to give verbal instructions to the first volunteer.The third one had to supply the materials required.The fourth one had to encourage/cheer the first person.When the time was over( I think they made five swans :) ), the teacher told us the objective of the activity and what each of the four symbolize:

First person --> Student (the one who does)
Second person-->Teacher(the one who instructs)
Third person-->Parent/Guardian(the one who looks after the child's needs)
Fourth person-->Friend (the one who motivates)

As for the tests, I think they should be used as a tool to correct yourself.You'll be surprised in how many ways they test students,at least in India -examinations,projects,practicals,quizzes.

I also agree with the idea where the students also teach their juniors.By teaching, they'll realize how much they themselves have learned.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Gopi » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:06 am

Sagar wrote:The teachers only need students who listen to them;a listening student and a devoted teacher can work wonders--they can rouse interest in the students about almost any subject.
Good point, which is probably why Pythagoreans made the first years shut up for a year. What I have personally found is that the listening process is predominantly initiated by the teacher - a good teacher listens, and that almost guarantees that the class listens. We had an English teacher in 11th Standard, who was the only person among the teachers who would encourage people to speak up, and honestly listened and gave feedback about it. Naturally, she never had to call for a pin-drop-silence... when she used to speak up, she used to get it.
Sagar wrote:First person --> Student (the one who does)
Second person-->Teacher(the one who instructs)
Third person-->Parent/Guardian(the one who looks after the child's needs)
Fourth person-->Friend (the one who motivates)
Nice game, was that in the personality building workshop attended in the holidays? I see a pattern here, that the first two and the second two merge together after a while, and then further reintegrate...
You'll be surprised in how many ways they test students,at least in India -examinations,projects,practicals,quizzes.
And most of all, they test our patience! :D
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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by LoneBear » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:31 am

Paduwan Sagar wrote:I partly agree with the idea of the division of classes according to interests( But interests need to be created.A student cannot be interested in a subject he doesn't know.I will say a "positive attitude towards learning").
One of the things that we have lost, at least here in America, is the Guild concept. In the old days, one could walk down the street and meet blacksmiths, shoe-makers, clothiers, shopkeeps,... all sorts of individual, diverse interests and products created by the owners of the stores. If something caught your interest, you could chat with the creator and perhaps become an apprentice to the trade. There was a lot of exposure to a lot of interests.

These days, we have Super Wal-mart... though with thousands of products, not a manufacturer in sight. A cowboy friend of mine had a group of students camp at his ranch, and was quite surprised to find out that they had NO IDEA where milk came from. To them, it was just this jug in the supermarket. They would be there every morning to watch and help milk the cows, separate the cream and fill the bottles.

About a decade ago, there was a big power failure in the city of Los Angeles, California. The whole city went dark. After the power returned, the local astronomical observatory received hundreds of phone calls from young people who were in a panic, wanting to know what was wrong with the sky. They got out there telescopes and started checking, but all was normal. Then someone figured it out... with all the light pollution of the city, these kids had never seen stars before.

A teacher can only expose a student to the interest that they, them self have--which is only a small fraction of what the Universe holds. I developed most of my interests from reading books in the Library. From that initial interest, I sought my teachers to learn more. So at least for me, it wasn't the teacher creating the interest, but the interest finding the teacher. In the guild days, most people were illiterate, so there were no libraries. These days, we have the Internet.
Paduwan Sagar wrote:The main duty of the students is to follow the teacher's instructions.They should be receptive to new ideas.The teachers only need students who listen to them;a listening student and a devoted teacher can work wonders--they can rouse interest in the students about almost any subject.
Something else that needs to be recognized is that people can only accept new concepts if they have the proper foundation for understanding, and they aren't presented too quickly. Listening is one thing; comprehending is something else.

If I were to walk into one of Gopi's physics classes, and start lecturing on the science of the L-race, where it starts with a principle where "light" is still, and everything else is moving, and that there are no "objects", only "change" (motion), what kind of response would I receive? I'd bet my butt would be quite sore from being kicked off the campus!
Paduwan Sagar wrote:Another thing which is necessary is the interaction between teachers and students.Most of the students feel inferior to ask doubts.This Chinese proverb caught my eye:"Ask a question and remain a fool for a minute, don't ask a question and remain a fool forever."Absolutely true, isn't it? :D
Very true... and that explains why America is a nation of fools! People here are raised on the Dalek principle, "you will obey without question." Get a job, pay your taxes, follow the laws, never question government (the surrogate parents). It usually takes a rude awakening to change that attitude. It is easier to follow than to lead, which I guess is one of the reasons the Ori are so interested in Earth. Prime assimilation material.

Sort of goes along with one of my favorite Doctor Who quotes... "every dogma has its day..." (from the idiom, "every dog has its day"--which means that everyone is successful during some period in their life.)
Paduwan Sagar wrote:First person --> Student (the one who does)
Second person-->Teacher(the one who instructs)
Third person-->Parent/Guardian(the one who looks after the child's needs)
Fourth person-->Friend (the one who motivates)
Question for you... is that a natural relationship, or a contrived one created by the merchant class now running the planet?

First person--> Employee (the one who does)
Second person--> Boss/Foreman (the one who instructs)
Third person--> The Corporation (the one who looks after the employee's needs)
Fourth person--> the Corporation paycheck (what motivates)

First person--> Citizen (the one who does)
Second person--> Government (the one who instructs--laws)
Third person--> Government (the one who looks after the citizen's needs)
Fourth person--> Government dole (what motivates)

See a pattern developing? Is there a better approach?
Paduwan Sagar wrote:You'll be surprised in how many ways they test students,at least in India -examinations,projects,practicals,quizzes.
gopi wrote:And most of all, they test our patience! :D
Well, it certainly sounds like exam time is here again! :D

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Arcelius » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:43 pm

Lonebear wrote:People here are raised on the Dalek principle, "you will obey without question."
That reminds me of the rather old Doctor Who episode where the Doctor introduces the "Human Factor" into the Dalek DNA. After enough of the Dalek started asking "Why?", their society fell apart violently.
Paduwan Sagar wrote:I also agree with the idea where the students also teach their juniors.By teaching, they'll realize how much they themselves have learned.
In North America, there was the concept of a one-room country schoolhouse. There would be one overall teacher who would prepare the lessons to learned. Sometimes the teacher would be mobile and travel to different places to get enough students. All grades may be represented and the older students would teach or otherwise assist the younger ones. Typically, a classroom wouldn't have that many students.

I am reminded of a study I read about (sorry, cannot find a reference right now). The researchers examined the lives of a number of people who are considered to be geniuses. They found 2 items in common: as children they developed close relationships with other children both older and younger than themselves and they had a close relationship with at least one adult (think of Lonebear's discussion of guilds and apprenticeship). Both of these things were available in a one-room schoolhouse (and other places I'm sure). The typical school in Canada and the USA segregates students by age so the typical interaction is with children their own age and the class size is large enough (maybe 30-50 students) so a close relationship with the teacher is not available to all (or even any) students.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Paduwan Sagar » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:08 am

Gopi wrote:What I have personally found is that the listening process is predominantly initiated by the teacher - a good teacher listens, and that almost guarantees that the class listens. We had an English teacher in 11th Standard, who was the only person among the teachers who would encourage people to speak up, and honestly listened and gave feedback about it. Naturally, she never had to call for a pin-drop-silence... when she used to speak up, she used to get it.
Yes, which reminds me of the story which I was told in 1st standard - the story of the monkeys and the cap-seller! :D
Gopi wrote:Nice game, was that in the personality building workshop attended in the holidays?
Right. Very enlightening workshop. Did some very good creative work.
LoneBear wrote:Then someone figured it out... with all the light pollution of the city, these kids had never seen stars before.
But for those who are curious, technology does provide more sources than those available earlier. I have a software called Celestia, which Gopi gave me, that pin-points all the heavenly bodies.It's about making use of what we have in the right way.
LoneBear wrote:If I were to walk into one of Gopi's physics classes, and start lecturing on the science of the L-race, where it starts with a principle where "light" is still, and everything else is moving, and that there are no "objects", only "change" (motion), what kind of response would I receive? I'd bet my butt would be quite sore from being kicked off the campus!
Again, it goes to the amount of belief that the students have in their teachers, that they have a good reason behind what they are teaching.
LoneBear wrote:Question for you... is that a natural relationship, or a contrived one created by the merchant class now running the planet?
After looking at your examples, it certainly seems to be contrived by the merchant class. But education has indeed become a business nowadays, with exceptions.
Aluxon wrote:The typical school in Canada and the USA segregates students by age so the typical interaction is with children their own age and the class size is large enough (maybe 30-50 students) so a close relationship with the teacher is not available to all (or even any) students.
Yes, the teacher cannot pay much attention to any particular child. I have heard that a child, when it is born, is gifted with infinite talent, but after he/she completes 10th, the person comes out as no one greater than an average child. So there's something seriously wrong with the current education system being followed all over the world.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Gopi » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:50 pm

Sagar wrote:I have heard that a child, when it is born, is gifted with infinite talent, but after he/she completes 10th, the person comes out as no one greater than an average child.
I get your point, but look at how any typical system works -- through conformity. There are set rules, and in view of the education being a business mode of thought, it is a giant machine designed to take up raw material (youngsters), manufacture them into good products (your 'average child'), and then 'sell' them into employment. It gets more acute at the university level.

BUT, there are always people who excel, and what exactly does that mean? That the need for the system is being outgrown, and they can function fairly well within the system, and hence without it too. The system has done its job. It is only when the system is oppressed onto the individual at every level that the trouble gets magnified. Holding a kid's hand when he is first learning to walk is all very fine, but holding it even when the kid wants to run is not so fine. Result: even at the adult age, the system is taking care of the majority.

So for it to work, in my opinion, there could be three levels to the education, taking into account the natural flow of evolution:

1. Rote learning and play with materials: As pointed by aluxon and LoneBear in the education thread, this has its uses in the axioms of learning--being with others, learning some basic concepts through association, and utilizing memory to the full. This would be suitable in the first seven years of age, the play balancing out the rote nature.

2. Applied learning and art: Here would be the right place to start the mathematics, and language aspects, where the mind has sufficient grasp of the rules to now start making use of them. The hands and the eyes are now coordinated, as are the other senses, hence it would be the right time to introduce the child to an art form of expression, music/ dance/ painting/ building. In my experience, 7 is the right age for that, and the period of this kind of education might stretch for 4-5 years at least.

3. Creative learning and Self development: With this foundation done, kids would have the ability now to think for themselves, particularly as the spirit starts expressing itself. Here is where the encouragement for questions and excellence as a whole would get the maximum stimulus, with the arrangement that the Teacher is now more of a guide than an "Instructor".

Basically the body-mind-spirit heirarchy applied with respect to a single child, the relationship aspect (dealing with other-selves) being a separate topic. Too often, teaching stops at level 1 or 2, and continues to be that way for years. Excellence continues to be defined in those terms.

My professor made an interesting comment today: "The way physics is taught to you guys, you are learning the grammar of a language for years, but without getting a chance to speak!" It was what gave me the idea that the grammar of the process is where education was getting stuck up, it is the spirit which moves one into conscious speech, and that has to be realized.
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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by LoneBear » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:06 pm

Some very interesting concepts have been presented here in these last few replies...

The Greeks (Socrates) always said that the first 5 years of a child's life determines who they will eventually be. Here in America, you don't start school until you are 5 years of age, so the primary influence to your formative nature comes from the family, neighborhood and environment.

To check this out, I took a look at my early years... when I was born, we were living in an apartment house with my grandparents (my mothers parents). I was always very close to those grandparents, because whenever I got cranky as a baby and was driving my mom crazy, my grandmother would come running to save the day. Even now, a half-century later, my grandmother still comes charging to the rescue when I get into trouble in dreams.

When I was about 2 years old, my father and grandfather built our house. In the old movies, I'm there hammering away, not having a clue what I was doing, but being exposed to lots of construction that carried through to life now, where I am an excellent builder and tradesman.

Our house was in a rural section, on a dead-end street where many others were building, all with kids about my age. So we had a large neighborhood where there wasn't much age difference, just a few years. Across the street was a State forest which surrounded the neighborhood, so our street was like a very small town in the middle of nowhere. And most of my life, I have lived in small towns in the middle of nowhere, and have been very uncomfortable in cities.

Also took a look at the "vMeme" bias of my parents. My dad was "orange", the entrepreneur. He worked a regular job until I was in High School, then started his own business. My mom, though very religious (Catholic), was basically "green". Though we went to church every Sunday, there were always magazines about the paranormal around the house, and she, along with my grandfather, were the first people to be sitting out on the porch in 1947, when the first UFO sightings became public. I noticed that I took after my mom, and my brother took after my dad, taking the same, basic valuing. My brother became the entrepreneur, and me, the new ager (as if you couldn't have guessed that!) I think that choice happened because of the birth sign; I'm Aquarius, the natural new age type. My brother is Leo. Winter and Summer... ice and fire... probably why we never got along very well!

I do see a strong correlation with the first 5 years of my life (preschool) and the person I turned out to be. Wondering if anyone else has a similar correlation?

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Gopi » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:43 pm

My first five years also have an interesting pattern to them.

My favorite game was to ride the tricycle, and I probably have ridden more of it than anybody else. And another favorite game was, curiously enough, playing with mustard seeds... I used to spend hours playing with around 10-15 mustard seeds. These little ball games continued for a while, and at age four, I got the additional obsession of playing with little cycle balls, the ones that are put in the ball bearings. I think I can connect it to RS now...

With respect to people, my parents tell me that I used to be carried around by everybody on my first year birthday. Usually children get scared of a couple of people, like certain people, and so on... so when the parents who are carrying the kid around give it to a stranger, the response shows. I used to go to EVERYbody, all that was required was "Come to my arms!" Had another little down side, that I used to insist that my Mom carry me, instead of me walking, for a bit longer than is usual... till age 4, funnily enough!

Life at Grandpa's house, or rather Grandma's house as I used to call it, was a storehouse of mythology and Sanskrit... I used to pore over Grandpa's books on the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, with all those pictures, in particular. I used to even draw those pictures on the back of bus tickets... to this day there are hand-drawn images plastered all over in my hostel room. Even Dad used to tell stories to me at night from the myths... Quite the foundation for the work in Sanskrit and Indian Mythology which later began.

Nursery usually begins at age 4 here, Lower Kindergarten, or LKG. Before that I had completed a year of Pre-Nursery... My mom got transferred to a different city for a year, Hospet, just as I turned four, and so I didn't attend the first year of schooling. Instead, I was taught at home by Mom in the new city... all the syllabus, and more, with lots of maths and mental jugglery. Used to write complete letters to Dad by then, and also read nearly a 100 Tinkle magazines (little comic set for kids) while traveling on train. Hence the Daniel Jackson! So when I came back and gave the final exam, I cleared it cleanly with great marks. My fifth year was one decisive year, staying away from Dad and actual home, with only visits from Dad.

I was always known for being the quiet lad, but VERY curious, used to fiddle around with everything, particularly small objects. Even today, I never forget the little things, and every favorite possession would fit within my palms.

Interestingly, in my case the vMeme pattern was reversed... it was Mom who was the entrepreneur-type Doctor, and Dad who was the green Meme empathic Doctor!

Fascinating look at the original template.
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Post by Paduwan Sagar » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:13 am

Nice to read your experiences in childhood.

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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by Arcelius » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:04 pm

I don't really remember much from the first 5 years of my life. From what I do remember, unlike others posting here, I don't see too much of a correlation. I don't even see much correlation between who I was 10 years ago and who I am today.

My first memories are from the second house I lived in. It happened to be slightly haunted. Though I never personally experienced anything that I remember, 3 of my siblings all have stories to tell (sounds, stuff on the walls that disappears, materialization, physical objects moving around, etc) and I certainly believed them. It's really scary when you are that young. Towards the end (i.e. before we moved again), I think my mother was somewhat convinced that something was going on. My father never believed us -- it never happened when he was around. Strangely (because they didn't believe us), both my parents had been involved with occultish-type stuff at university and we also had a smattering of occult-related reading material in the house.

One day during a rain shower, my older sister and I decided to go out and play in the rain. We were standing between our garage and our house (maybe 10 feet between them). We realized that it was a thunderstorm and began debating whether we should continue to play to go inside. We were standing together and my sister put her hand out and asked if I thought if lightening would strike her hand. She then quickly pulled her hand back and it did strike EXACTLY where her hand was a moment before. I really don't know why the lightening didn't strike either building beside us or us for that matter. Even though we were only a foot or two from the strike, neither of us were directly affected. Indirectly, we were both quite scared and went inside to tell our mother who promptly got mad that we had been outside in the storm in the first place.

I remember playing in the spring/summer on a windy day. I noticed that a stick or twig had become lodged in the screen on the screen door. I thought I would be helpful and remove it. When I touched it and it walked away taking with it a certain sense of reality, I screamed. By the time my mother arrived, it was gone and I was still screaming. She was not sympathetic, scolded me for screaming without any reason, and then left. It was a number of years before I read about and saw pictures of stick bugs.

Apparently, I never crawled. I went directly from "hitching rides" to walking. My mother tells me that I was very good at getting people to carry me. Then one day, I started walking and no more rides. She also tells me that I was very obedient. For example, she would tell me not to go up the stairs. I wouldn't even go near the stairs never mind question why. I don't think this represents me anymore.

For his own amusement (I guess), one of the neighbourhood teenagers taught me how to multiply one afternoon. I wasn't in kindergarten yet and couldn't count past 20 and was multiplying (in my head, of course). Perhaps that stuck a bit to me since I now have a degree in Math.

My parents were (and still are I think) Blue vMeme. My siblings are as well. I don't really see myself as Blue vMeme anymore though I'm sure I once was. My grandfathers were both Orange and engineers. For grandmothers, I think one was Blue as well and the other I'm really not sure. She was a pioneer girl (literally). Perhaps she was Green since she was a nurse and otherwise was quite helpful and sociable. Of all of them, I was closest to my maternal grandfather. I would visit in the summer for a week or so. He had a workshop and everytime I visited we would have a project and build something. He could do anything or so it seemed. While I learned a lot about building things from him, I've never really done this except when necessary.

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lvx08
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Re: Classes and Grades

Post by lvx08 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:52 pm

Another thing you can do is look at a childhood dream - usually a dream that recurred a number of times in your childhood. This tends to indicate one's life myth

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