Developing Community

Discussion of the basic concepts and philosophy behind the idea of a Sanctuary; a place where those exhibiting traits of the next generation of man can meet and learn, without prejudice or bias.
User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:33 pm

There has been an inquiry made with regards to the possibility of a second root gathering and I would like to extend an open invitation to anyone who might want to take part in the Sanctuary Project to come out to Salt Lake City and visit with those of us here at your leisure for whatever period of time you would want to stay and visit.

Rather than a formal gathering with presentations as to why we are building Sanctuary--since this is defined and currently being made available in new media formats: videos, formal papers, podcasts, etc.--we can spend more time discussing what we have learned so far and the ideas that we are currently working on.

For anyone who might need to be brought up to speed, last year saw the movement of several members in the virtual community to Salt Lake City, Utah. Gopi and his wife, Snetu, Austin AKA Spaceman, Billy, and I are all here now working in our respective fields and getting together as often as we can in order to discuss anything and everything where the development of this project is concerned.

We have been scouting out potential areas for development of a place where we might take our next step towards the intentional community and have found a truly promising area in the Southern part of the state. We are thinking of this as being something like an old-time boarding home.

We have also discussed to great lengths the development of the business aspect of the project and think that the possibility of operating a bed and breakfast is a good endeavor for us so that we might be able to generate revenue as a group to use towards the development of larger spaces as the group grows. The bed and breakfast idea has the potential to evolve into more of a nature retreat type of place, or has been discussed, a "digital detox" of sorts.

With an established, profitable business through which to engage in the world at large, and a community of people living and working together to further the development of the Monastery portion of the project, we can then transition to other places, likely outside of the US as has been discussed here in the forum. This doesn't mean that everyone who comes to take part in the work here in Utah has to relocate to a different country if you don't want to. We may end up with a situation where branching out occurs while the developed establishments stay as a part of the project where they are. These particular details are as yet left to a future time. As the saying goes, "We'll cross that bridge when we get there.", but I did want to share all of this anyways so as it convey the sense of direction that we are looking to move in.

And so it is, to anyone who might want to come out and talk shop, please feel free to do so. I can offer a discounted rate at the hotel that I work at, $49 plus tax which comes out to $55.49 total per night. There is also a hostel (not a youth hostel) here in the city that Billy, Spaceman, and I used when we traveled to SLC last February and that Spaceman and I stayed in for over a couple of months when we moved here in July and August that has rooms between $20 and $25 per night. Billy, Spaceman, and I live a mile away from the hotel where I work which is a short 15 minute drive from the airport so getting in will be fairly easy. If you decide to stay at the hotel here (Crystal Inn - West Valley City) then you're guaranteed free shuttle service to and from the airport as well as a few other places near here if you need it.

So let's get together! As they say back home, "Come and sit a spell". We'd love to have you and continue in these efforts to expand and develop this community that we all so desperately feel is necessary in the world at this time.

We look forward to seeing you soon!
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

Billy
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by Billy » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:48 am

Allow me to cordially 'second' this invitation. The nature of that which is transpiring here is quite remarkable, but it has not come without its challenges. I am happy to report that the core members of this group, all whom have made, and continue to make, sacrifices to be here and working to make this a reality, are gelling in a manner that truly exceeds expectations. This, as I recall, was step number one: Find out whether or not a group of individuals, whom are actively endeavoring to work with nature and not against it, are able to come together and work towards a common goal, in rapport; as opposed to the standard issue bickering, arguing, whining, and "my way or the highway" nonsense. And let me tell you that nature is responding to this, in some very interesting ways. So-called 'magic' is manifesting itself here, and serving as a guide; sometimes in a subtle fashion, and sometimes in a way that is akin to a large oak branch slapping you upside the head :-) Interesting how simple, intriguing, wondrous, and challenging the whole thing is.

It is not an easy thing to make the conscious choice to walk in a direction that leads you away from the one that is currently being blindly followed by most of the rest of humanity. In my case, there were no doubts, for this is it. The world at large has gone quite bananas, and it's getting stranger every day. The time to bring this place to fruition - this Sanctuary, the birth place of Homo Sapiens Ethicus - is here, and now. Those wishing to make a deeper commitment by taking the steps onto 'The Great Path'; as well as those who are curious, and who wish to see what it is that is transpiring here; are equally welcome. Want a delicious, home cooked Sicilian meal, served at a table amongst a group of folks who continue to deduce the natural workings of the Universe, all while a tabby cat prowls around at your feet, waiting for a warm piece of food to 'accidentally' fall from the table top? It awaits you here.

I look forward to hearing responses. Your thoughts, talents, insight, and feedback are most welcome; though the chance to shake hands would be preferable :-)

Ilkka
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Developing Community

Post by Ilkka » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:34 pm

joeyv23 wrote:I can offer a discounted rate at the hotel that I work at, $49 plus tax which comes out to $55.49 total per night.
How about meals does the price include meals, breakfast, dinner and such? Also do I have to pay taxes since I am not U.S. citizen? I have no idea how taxes work in there so thats why I ask.
And another thing, how much time should I spent there if I come there 5 days or so maybe less? I am very cheap and cant think of any sight seeing either :D But I am interest of seeing you guys in person, LB and daniel included. That would mean that you guys have a chance to put a face on the name as well. Oh and almost forget what time suits all of you the best, early February maybe?
Enjoy the Silence

User avatar
Andrew
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:53 am

Re: Developing Community

Post by Andrew » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:25 pm

There is a sales tax on anything you buy, citizen or not. Usually around 7-8%.

I am supremely interested in meeting everyone. Already going to Philadelphia in April though. That'll be $1000. Flights cost less the farther out you book them. Not that money should be an issue obtaining for a wizard.

The Universe may respond and assist me in the details. Would have to know to take off work. The shuttle services provided by the Inn helps a lot.
"Classical historians traditionally dismiss tales of magic as unworthy of scholarly attention, but to us any mention of a witch's broomstick or wizard's wand evokes the smell of a scientist's laboratory." The Sphinx and the Megaliths

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:00 pm

Ilkka wrote:How about meals does the price include meals, breakfast, dinner and such?
Buffet style breakfast is included with the room. If you'd like, you're welcome to use the kitchen where we stay. We are walking distance to a grocery store which likely would be more cost effective than eating out.

As for how long to stay, that's totally up to you! We all have different working schedules so there's usually one of us always available. My job is the only one that we ever have to work around to all get together, but that's manageable if I know well enough in advance so I can take the appropriate days off.

As for sight seeing, there are lots of options for that. We could hop on the light rail and head downtown to see Temple Square or if you lean more towards nature we can take a drive out of the city into the mountains. If you're here for several days, we could potentially take a trip down to see some Anasazi Ruins and have a look at the area we are currently surveying.

I'll let the others give their input on timing. I'm personally fine with whenever you choose to make the trip. There are a couple of others who have expressed interest in coming out sometime in or after April so maybe we can coordinate things so that folks' trips coincide, but if this isn't logistically feasible then we are still happy to have each of you whenever you are able to come out - sooner or later, whatever works best for you.

In regards to the hotel shuttle service, aside from to/from the airport, we give rides to the Valley Fair Mall here in West Valley City, grocery store, pharmacy, and gym, though, we aren't partnered with the gym since there is a small fitness room here at the property. Aside from that, as mentioned before, it's likely that one or more of us would be available so if rides are needed I don't think it would be too difficult to arrange. If need be, I have a promotional code that will get any new user a $50 credit with the Uber alternative, Ryde.
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

Billy
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by Billy » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:40 pm

Ilkka,
How about meals does the price include meals, breakfast, dinner and such?
I am not at all too shabby in the kitchen, and we as a group have already gotten together on several occasions upon which a home-cooked, buffet style meal was prepared. I relish the opportunity to cook a nice meal for this group, so there's that :-)
how much time should I spent there if I come there 5 days or so maybe less?
This I think would be entirely up to you. I would think that five days would provide ample time for you to meet everyone and engage in a great many conversations. Of course, as Joey said, there may also exist the possibility of a trip down south, and this is certainly something that can be discussed in more detail, as I myself really want to get back down there sometime in the near future, to scout out the locale, and to glimpse what it is that others have seen.
I am very cheap and cant think of any sight seeing either :D But I am interest of seeing you guys in person
The mountains are a lovely sight, but apart from this, it's your average city. I myself frequent the local herbal apothecaries, as I am deeply engaged in a study of herbal medicine making. The Temple downtown is quite the draw, but it left me with quite an odd feeling, as if I was surrounded by fortress walls that echoed with the words, "Though shalt not pass without the golden plates!"

And yes, the feeling is mutual in terms of meeting in person.
Oh and almost forget what time suits all of you the best, early February maybe?
Well, Gopi and his wife are away in India until the beginning of February, so it would be swell to have them here when you arrive. They cook up some absolutely delightful Indian cuisine *hint* *hint*

Andrew,
Already going to Philadelphia in April though.
Understood. I agree with Joey that we here can assist you in whatever ways possible during your stay. Between the three of us living here in West Valley, we have two cars, so we may be able to work things out, from one day to the next. Weekends are best for me, though given enough notice, I most likely can shift some things around in my own schedule to make myself available.
If you'd like, you're welcome to use the kitchen where we stay. We are walking distance to a grocery store which likely would be more cost effective than eating out.
Yes, good idea, Joey. You're welcome to use our kitchen; so long as you don't mind my cat perched on top of the fridge, looking down upon you longingly as you scramble your eggs, hoping beyond all hope that a piece may just 'accidentally' come popping out of the pan and onto the floor :-)

User avatar
Lozion
Cellarius
Cellarius
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Changes all the time..

Re: Developing Community

Post by Lozion » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:02 pm

Damn, strange timing.. Just as Joey was posting this, I was struggling to book a flight out of Miami where I was visiting family and had to insist to complete the process so much that I wondered if I should check other alternatives. Maybe I should've paused and check AQ..

Well, here am I in Costa Rica for a few weeks to visit friends and check out opportunities.. I'm located to the south of the Nicoya Peninsula, a so called Blue zone with beautiful nature and "alternative" lifestyle infrastructure.

Wont be able to make it out to SLC right now but if I can do something while I'm here for an eventual step 2 to Kheb, let me know..
In rapport we thrive, in rivalry we strive.

roses
Gregralis
Gregralis
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: Developing Community

Post by roses » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:20 pm

Would you be willing to provide an update on the status of the community development going on in SLC? What are your concrete goals? What is the timeline you are working with and how many people have committed to join you already?

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:01 pm

roses wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:20 pm
Would you be willing to provide an update on the status of the community development going on in SLC? What are your concrete goals? What is the timeline you are working with and how many people have committed to join you already?
Right now there are 6 of us here in SLC: LoneBear, Gopi and his wife Snetu, Austin (Spaceman), Billy, and myself. We've alsp got a friend here, Hannis, who has expressed interest in the project. We're just inside of a year of Gopi and Snetu's and my move out here and Austin and Billy will hit their year mark towards the end of Summer.

In the course of the last year, we've traveled to different places in the state, making connections and getting a feel for the area. Within the last couple of weeks, Austin, Billy, and I have been down to a permaculture farm where Billy did some foraging for wild herbs prior to this specific visit, and we had a nice evening with the family there eating homemade pizza cooked in a handmade brick oven.

While we were there, we were tipped off about another permaculture farm down between Zion's National Park and Bryce Canyon National Park whose owners seem to share the same ideals and values where stewardship and working in rapport rather than in competition are held in high regard. From what we were told, it may very well be that this establishment is what we have been looking for, and conversely that we may be what the owners of the property there are looking for as well where acquisition of the proper environment (for us) and a continuation of the owners' legacy (for them) might be had. We'll know more once we make the trip down and begin getting to know each other. Updates will be provided after we take the trip down there.

As far as goals go, we (at least Austin and I) figured for about a year to find a potential next step and if things go well, it looks as though we may very well meet that goal/prediction. Given the nature of our interactions here; work schedules, health and home life, we tend towards flexibility as much as possible. Where there was an intense feeling of urgency at first, there is now a relaxed pace where it's understood that things fall into place at the right time. Sanctuary occurs daily between us as we interact and grow together. It will be great when we are able to have that in a place that feels more like a sanctuary proper, but for now, it's already a thing that we engage even though we live in the city.

Not sure if this fully satisfies the inquiry, please feel free to ask any questions specific or otherwise if you're so inclined. I personally haven't posted much in the past little bit as much of what I might have posted about in the past is discussed offline here with the one or more of the group which tends me, at least, away from interacting as much virtually, but we are still here and are happy to discuss any aspect of what we're working on!
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

User avatar
kano
Discens
Discens
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: Developing Community

Post by kano » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:52 pm

Greetings! My name is Kane and I have been over on the Conscious Hugs Forum for a while but have never created an account here. It seems now is the right time for me to be back in the mix.

Back in 2012 I was introduced to the Kheb Monastery idea by Daniel and was totally hooked on the huge benefit it could provide to those of like mind and to the Earth itself. I ended up having to take some time off from the forum but have come back over the last month or so to read about what great strides you all have made to further the Kheb mission. Wow, I'm impressed!

I wanted to reach out to the group to introduce myself and offer my assistance, in rapport and in stride, in hopes of augmenting your efforts in whatever way I can. I look forward to getting to know you all, learning and improving, and contributing to the greater good.

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:41 pm

kano wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:52 pm
I wanted to reach out to the group to introduce myself and offer my assistance, in rapport and in stride, in hopes of augmenting your efforts in whatever way I can. I look forward to getting to know you all, learning and improving, and contributing to the greater good.
Hi, Kane! Always nice to meet someone interested in working in rapport towards common goals. Feel free to dive right into the conversation wherever you find it strikes your fancy. I look forward to interacting further :)
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

User avatar
kano
Discens
Discens
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: Developing Community

Post by kano » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:03 am

Hi, Kane! Always nice to meet someone interested in working in rapport towards common goals. Feel free to dive right into the conversation wherever you find it strikes your fancy. I look forward to interacting further :)
Hi Joey! Ready to dive in. I have a few questions. Apologies if they have already been answered.

At this point, what is the next major hurdle to overcome? Is it finding the right piece of land to build on? Or have you all decided to lean more towards purchasing existing construction and retrofitting?

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:02 pm

kano wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:03 am
At this point, what is the next major hurdle to overcome? Is it finding the right piece of land to build on? Or have you all decided to lean more towards purchasing existing construction and retrofitting?
Property is pretty much the issue at hand right now. None of us are currently in a position to make any large purchases. The idea we're currently pursuing is establishing something like a living trust with someone who has already developed something similar to what we're trying to do. The idea is that the existing owners of the property continue to own it and live there, but we'd start taking an active role in helping out and learning all that we can from them, gaining from the years of experience that they have under their belts. When the owners feel ready to move on, the property would fall to Antiquatis Institute, Inc. Otherwise, short of meeting a well to do philanthropist who is willing to fund us from the ground up, we'll be needing to focus on getting ourselves to a place where we could make large purchases at some point in the future. We now have an official meeting scheduled at the permaculture farm that I mentioned before early next month so hopefully this venture will pan out.
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

User avatar
kano
Discens
Discens
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: Developing Community

Post by kano » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:21 pm

Property is pretty much the issue at hand right now. None of us are currently in a position to make any large purchases. The idea we're currently pursuing is establishing something like a living trust with someone who has already developed something similar to what we're trying to do. The idea is that the existing owners of the property continue to own it and live there, but we'd start taking an active role in helping out and learning all that we can from them, gaining from the years of experience that they have under their belts. When the owners feel ready to move on, the property would fall to Antiquatis Institute, Inc. Otherwise, short of meeting a well to do philanthropist who is willing to fund us from the ground up, we'll be needing to focus on getting ourselves to a place where we could make large purchases at some point in the future. We now have an official meeting scheduled at the permaculture farm that I mentioned before early next month so hopefully this venture will pan out.
I see. What do you estimate the initial start up costs to be? In the existing owner scenario and the ground up scenario? Also, what topography is ideal for the Monastery? Year round warmth, flowing water, flat, forest vs field, etc?

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:59 pm

kano wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:21 pm
I see. What do you estimate the initial start up costs to be? In the existing owner scenario and the ground up scenario? Also, what topography is ideal for the Monastery? Year round warmth, flowing water, flat, forest vs field, etc?
I've deferred this inquiry to Spaceman who has more of a grasp than I do on some of the technical details. He should have a response for you in the next day or so.
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

User avatar
kano
Discens
Discens
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: Developing Community

Post by kano » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:10 am

I've deferred this inquiry to Spaceman who has more of a grasp than I do on some of the technical details. He should have a response for you in the next day or so.
10-4, thanks!

User avatar
Andrew
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:53 am

Re: Developing Community

Post by Andrew » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:37 pm

joeyv23 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:02 pm
kano wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:03 am
At this point, what is the next major hurdle to overcome? Is it finding the right piece of land to build on? Or have you all decided to lean more towards purchasing existing construction and retrofitting?
Property is pretty much the issue at hand right now. None of us are currently in a position to make any large purchases. The idea we're currently pursuing is establishing something like a living trust with someone who has already developed something similar to what we're trying to do. The idea is that the existing owners of the property continue to own it and live there, but we'd start taking an active role in helping out and learning all that we can from them, gaining from the years of experience that they have under their belts. When the owners feel ready to move on, the property would fall to Antiquatis Institute, Inc. Otherwise, short of meeting a well to do philanthropist who is willing to fund us from the ground up, we'll be needing to focus on getting ourselves to a place where we could make large purchases at some point in the future. We now have an official meeting scheduled at the permaculture farm that I mentioned before early next month so hopefully this venture will pan out.
I don't know much about the legal protections a corporate state will give us, besides the limited liability of an LLC. All I know is if it were "religious" organization we could get tax benefits. On top of that, this is the path to exercising rights of no property taxes. Combined would be financially "yuge."
"Classical historians traditionally dismiss tales of magic as unworthy of scholarly attention, but to us any mention of a witch's broomstick or wizard's wand evokes the smell of a scientist's laboratory." The Sphinx and the Megaliths

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:46 pm

kano wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:43 am
I remembered someone saying (maybe Joey or Austin) that they were going to look at some land for the Monastery soon. Just wondering if that happened and what the result was. Where was it? Was it a good fit?
The Stage 3 aspect will come into play down the road. For now, we've made some very big steps towards getting ourselves onto a launchpad where we can start working on and gaining the knowledge necessary to initiate Stage 1. There's a great deal of information to share and update everyone here with - and that will be forthcoming in the next few days after everyone here has had the chance to sit down and discuss things, but for now I wanted to answer your questions.. The place is called Heartwater Farm. Also see their Facebook page here. And to answer the second question..

Image
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

User avatar
DSKlausler
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 12:03 pm
Location: My bubble outside Chicago.

Re: Developing Community

Post by DSKlausler » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:03 am

Unfortunately, but not surprising, the website is sparse, and incomplete. However, from just the photos, and limited commentary, it looks promising.

I look forward to your discussion results.
Anything is possible with the proper training.

User avatar
Arcelius
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:35 pm
Location: Atlantic Canada

Re: Developing Community

Post by Arcelius » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:14 am

DSKlausler wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:03 am
Unfortunately, but not surprising, the website is sparse, and incomplete. However, from just the photos, and limited commentary, it looks promising.

I look forward to your discussion results.
Indeed. I wish there was more information available on the site and less broken links. If you can share more photos here, that would be helpful and informative.

7Serpent
Indagator
Indagator
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:18 pm

Re: Developing Community

Post by 7Serpent » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:17 am

Arcelius wrote : ↑» Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:14 am

DSKlausler wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:03 am
Unfortunately, but not surprising, the website is sparse, and incomplete. However, from just the photos, and limited commentary, it looks promising.

I look forward to your discussion results.

Indeed. I wish there was more information available on the site and less broken links. If you can share more photos here, that would be helpful and informative.
It also only20 acres and not for sale that I can tell. Why would there be a desire to invest time and talent here? Seems like to me if there are already several gathered in SLC, would it not make more sense to start a "new religion" legally and then buy something? instead of throwing rent out the window, invest in the project at hand. I assume all are gainfully working somewhere to pay the current rent and living expenses, so split the mortgage amongst the the monks... Maybe they are interested in how that soccer ball greenhouse works? I have the plans for building those...that Kasper guy on the net sold a little algorithm/software pgm so you can pick your desired size and then all the chord lengths are calculated for you. Build a 30' diam and the materials are maybe $750. with 5 people a weekend or 2 and and its built so... anyhow guess i will wait an see what develops like the others are.

User avatar
joeyv23
Atriensis
Atriensis
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by joeyv23 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:15 pm

Arcelius wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:14 am
DSKlausler wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:03 am
Unfortunately, but not surprising, the website is sparse, and incomplete. However, from just the photos, and limited commentary, it looks promising.

I look forward to your discussion results.
Indeed. I wish there was more information available on the site and less broken links. If you can share more photos here, that would be helpful and informative.
The cover picture on their Facebook page is probably the best picture of the property I've seen online. You can also find 5 or 6 videos on Youtube if you do a search for Heartwater Farm.
7Serpent wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:17 am
It also only20 acres and not for sale that I can tell. Why would there be a desire to invest time and talent here? Seems like to me if there are already several gathered in SLC, would it not make more sense to start a "new religion" legally and then buy something? instead of throwing rent out the window, invest in the project at hand. I assume all are gainfully working somewhere to pay the current rent and living expenses, so split the mortgage amongst the the monks... Maybe they are interested in how that soccer ball greenhouse works? I have the plans for building those...that Kasper guy on the net sold a little algorithm/software pgm so you can pick your desired size and then all the chord lengths are calculated for you. Build a 30' diam and the materials are maybe $750. with 5 people a weekend or 2 and and its built so... anyhow guess i will wait an see what develops like the others are.
The amount of diversity on that 20 acres is astounding. I've never encountered a place with as much life as there is there at the property. The lot is actually for sale right now, but we're not looking to buy it. We're setting ourselves up to be working partners with the farm so that the vision that John and Rhonda had when they started building the place will continue beyond their time there. John actually called it Sanctuary after hearing what we have been working towards and seeing that he's been doing this already for almost 3 decades. Austin and Billy will have to chime in with some more fleshed out details, but in essence, this would be a stable platform upon which to begin working towards us having our own place later on. The idea is that we get down there and help complete the design and make the farm profitable. The place is already off grid and supplies John and Rhonda with the things that they need but it's always been the plan to have the farm successfully engaged in profitable endeavors--the big one off the top of my head would be the establishment of fish farming and aquaculture on the land. In the process we would all have our own personal business endeavors to make sure expenses (minimal though they will be) are taken care of. We're looking to visit again sometime next month to continue building the relationship and then the next step will be for me to move down for a 7 or more month internship. This allows them to see our dedication and gives me a wonderful opportunity to develop experience with permaculture and holistic land management. If it happens that the property is bought wholesale for the price they've given the realtors, I'd be compensated for the work I do there out of the money from the sale. If the year goes by and nobody buys, then we move forward in a big way with continuing to develop the place and have our folks take more of a role there. Essentially, this winds up being exactly what we were looking for as a first step towards the goal of a place of our own. Again, there are more details that Billy and Austin will share, but as it stands, personally, I see this as probably the best opportunity that we're going to find.
"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

Billy
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by Billy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:19 pm

the website is sparse, and incomplete. However, from just the photos, and limited commentary, it looks promising.
I wish there was more information available on the site and less broken links. If you can share more photos here, that would be helpful and informative.
You're both correct: the website contains a number of broken links. Please visit the Heartwater Farm Facebook page, which features a good deal of useful info, including video presentations. It will give you a brief (but good) general overview of the land.
would it not make more sense to start a "new religion" legally and then buy something?
The concept being employed is one in which we are using the moniker of 'religious organization' as a means of ensuring that we can establish a proper relationship with that of the current tax structure, as the system itself does not legally recognize 'spiritual organizations'. It's important to be clear on this, as the goal here is not to found a new religion. Rather, as has been stated here in the past, any path that leads one towards the ethical evolution of consciousness is recognized as the right path. Also, in terms of purchasing something outright: Over the years, each of the properties that I myself have visited previously were purchased by the owners back in the 70's and/or early 80's. Since that time, the price of land and brick-and-mortar real estate have skyrocketed, and you're now looking at seven figures in terms of a purchasing price for land of this nature.
split the mortgage amongst the the monks
Once the banks become involved, the entire nature of the situation changes, and not for the better. Accumulating debt of this magnitude is not a wise idea, and creates an unstable foundation. Any land that would serve as a home for Sanctuary would need to have been purchased outright by the owners, and preserved under the protection of a trust or trusts, so as to ensure that one single individual does not have a controlling interest in the land. Many an effort to create a self-sufficient community has fallen apart due to the lack of the 'round table' type of set-up that a trust provides.

So, here is the essence of the current situation: Heartwater Farm is a 20 acre high desert, wetland property located smack dab in the middle of three of the most beautiful national forest regions in all of the Southwest. The property has, for decades, been operating as a permaculture farm, having been transformed from a sparse, overgrazed environment into an amazingly lush wetland habitat, rich in ecological and biodiversity. For years, the owners (John and Rhonda, who are both now in their 60's), have been seeking to find the right fit in terms of younger folks who would come to live and to work the land, in the hopes that they (the younger folks) would be in a position to one day carry forth the vision established decades ago. Unfortunately, all efforts to find such a match have thus far been in vain, due to the inability of a great many of the interns and WOOFERS to complete even the most menial of tasks. Ultimately, John and Rhonda were at their wits end, and decided that the only feasible option left to them would be to sell the land and to prepare for their later life years, as they are finding it difficult to continue forward with the day to day operations on the land. Interestingly enough, we here made first contact on the very same day that they themselves had contacted a real estate agent (more on this in a moment).

The property itself features two geodesic dome-shaped greenhouses that operate year-round. There is also an arrangement currently in place between themselves and a free-range cattle ranch farther south, which brings its prized heifers onto the land to graze in a 'rotational' fashion, which only serves to further enrich the health of the land. There is also a small chicken population. The main building on the property is a reinforced concrete dome house that features an open interior setting. The entire property is completely off-grid, being run by an active solar power system that draws only 5% of the total potential power output. In essence: There is a great deal of infrastructure already in place, as again, this is a working permaculture farm, one that has drawn praise from others in the permaculture movement, world-wide.

Our recent visit to the land left us in this position: John and Rhonda were impressed by the vision that we have built, and are willing to give us a chance to come onto the land as a means of finding out whether or not this might be a good fit for all involved. We are going to be taking this slowly, first beginning with a long weekend trip down in August. This, more than anything else, will go a long way towards showing them that this particular group actually does employ common sense, and fully understands the commitment that it takes to maintain and to further expand upon the foundation that has already been laid down. A great many future business endeavors have been discussed, and John and Rhonda themselves have a detailed plan for future additions to the property (as a means of accommodating to a more diversified revenue stream). This is where we would come in.

Should this visit go well, another would most likely follow sometime soon thereafter, at which point a long-term internship(s) would be opened up to us. At some point during this process, (within the next year), a mutual decision will need to be reached between all parties in which a living trust would be drawn up, allowing us to come onto the land and assume the day to day responsibilities, and also allowing John and Rhonda to step back, take some well-deserved rest, and decide upon a plan for their later years.

Having said all of this, the farm will still be placed on the market, for one year's time. John and Rhonda feel that the amount of work that they have put into the land entitles them to accept nothing less than the full asking price. Should we ourselves come down and make improvements to the property, thereby increasing its value, and if it were to sell, they would be willing to work out an arrangement in terms of paying us fairly for the work put in.

In effect: the opportunity currently being presented is a promising one, and is, in many ways, perfectly suited towards Stage 1 of Antiquatis. Such an arrangement does not come without its stipulations, but again, it appears that all involved are willing to take steps forward towards making this a mutually agreeable situation. If it were otherwise, then John and Rhonda could just as soon put the land up for sale and be done with it. This is not their vision. They WANT for their life's work to continue to be of value into the future.

So that's where we are at, currently. One of the things being discussed here, (and again, we don't want to be getting ahead of ourselves), is that of the next steps in this process; should the property ultimately become available to us, that is. We have spoken about making the transition onto the land in phases, i.e. certain folks would go first, with others to follow; as our skill sets require. As part of this, we would be looking at others whom are a part of the Antiquatis community who feel that the time would be right for them to make the transition to Salt Lake City. One idea that has been discussed is that of myself possibly remaining here, to assist others in the transition to the area, (future roomy, perhaps?), and then moving down onto the land when the time is right, i.e. steps and stages of individual transition.

We here will be certain to be posting updates on all of this as they become available. Again, the next step will happen in one month's time, and I'm certain that there will be more to tell in terms of development.

For now, we look forward to getting the input of others in this community. If any questions arise, please feel free to post them here.

User avatar
DSKlausler
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 12:03 pm
Location: My bubble outside Chicago.

Re: Developing Community

Post by DSKlausler » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:12 am

This all sounds great.

I'm fairly certain that you've already considered this, but aquaculture reminded me of the need for substantial... water. Verify the water-rights - especially being in such an arid region.

Had to laugh at this:
Billy wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:19 pm
...younger folks who would come to live and to work the land, in the hopes that they (the younger folks) would be in a position to one day carry forth the vision established decades ago. Unfortunately, all efforts to find such a match have thus far been in vain, due to the inability of a great many of the interns and WOOFERS to complete even the most menial of tasks.
You mean the work doesn't just magically happen while we're asleep?
Anything is possible with the proper training.

Billy
Centurio
Centurio
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Re: Developing Community

Post by Billy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:28 am

I'm fairly certain that you've already considered this, but aquaculture reminded me of the need for substantial... water. Verify the water-rights - especially being in such an arid region.
Yes, the water rights are firmly in place, and have been for some time. A number of years ago, John carefully dug out a circular waterway that winds about the central/peripheral parts of the property in a meandering fashion, which has further served to enrich the land. The water that is put to daily use by the folks on the land is sourced from an Artesian well, also located on the property.

The interesting thing about this particular piece of property, (and Austin and I were discussing this last evening), is that it doesn't seem to fit in with the surrounding environment nor with the Hardiness Zone assigned to it, in the sense that it is a 20 acre wetland paradise, located in a valley, in a high desert climate. This is a very unique piece of land, one that has been built up in such a fashion whereby the laws of nature have been allowed to express themselves. There are a number of areas on the property that have remained undisturbed for some time, allowing for biodiversity to flourish.
You mean the work doesn't just magically happen while we're asleep?
Not unless you're a farming family back in pre-19th century Ireland or Scotland, in which it was not uncommon for the brownies to come in the night and tidy up the place, enjoying only in return gifts of raw milk and sweet breads.

Not certain what many of these young folks were thinking they would find when they came onto the land as interns, but what I do know is that John and Rhonda were pleased to find a group of youngins who actually do realize the level of commitment and work ethic that is required to make such a lifestyle a reality.

Post Reply