Society and Rules

Kheb is a monastery, remote but not secluded, where people can have an alternative to the mercantile system that is imposed upon society by our political and educational institutions. It is a physical PLACE, and this topic is to discuss the facilities, structures, accommodations, and other physical constructs needed to successfully implement the ideas behind the Sanctuary Project, as well as the "political" structures of a new type of monastic system.
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Society and Rules

Post by Gopi » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:01 am

A certain aspect of rules has come to my notice since my arrival in the US, and that has to be with the kind of system that a culture values. It is a bit different from religion, as it has still not projected out the Ego onto an external agency, but it involves the projection of the anima or the animus onto an external agent.

For the most part, it appears that the mechanistic system works well in western Industrial Society, as long as the system is about logistics and involves the "fixing" of things or smooth working of stuff. I arrived here, and within 48 hours, nearly all of my paperwork was complete, and the same thing would have taken three weeks back home. The liquid nitrogen was running low in the lab, and people were worrying that the guy was three HOURS late (Looking at the seriousness in which the concerns were voiced, I was mistakenly thinking he was three days late). My parents have mentioned something similar in Europe... where people in general do NOT skip the line, nor break traffic rules. They were frowned upon and blocked even when they jumped the line in response to an announcement calling out their names. The general tendency is to get things fixed... heck, even meals get "fixed"!

Based on a similar logic, but with a psychological system: you get the traditional eastern society. Here the FAMILY generally "works" smoothly, without a squeak. Continuing with the thread about Material Relationships, we see that the rule is not "does it work" but "does it feel appropriate". Along with the inverting of the rule criteria, you also have the inverting of the area where they are applied, one is applied on yang machine, another is applied on yin emotion. In place of the convenience of the mechanical system being valued, you have the convenience of the emotional/psychological environment which is highly valued (as anyone who has been slightly rude to a Gypsy would find out). Take the extreme east, like traditional Japan... manners are everything. In China, a deal is not sealed unless you have carried out the traditional greeting, and it doesn't matter if you have signed papers to prove your case.

The important thing is, BOTH follow rules!!! And BOTH do not follow the complementary set of rules. In simple terms, mechanistic logic works best in getting an item from point A to point B, or getting point B to move whenever point A moves... a spatial valuing. Take a look at the workings of a computer or the efficient working of an organization: same principle. In emotional aspects, the logic is to get the feelings aligned, IN TIME. Which is why tradition and repetition are so honored, they are representations of temporal alignment, in clock time (as something done for a long duration) and coordinate time (something done repeatedly at a certain frequency over that time). It is all about how to get something from Time A to Time B... a temporal ordering. Giving of respect, eastern concept of praying, family cultural rituals all reaffirm a similar idea.

Now when one system is seen from the other, what would be observable? Basic psychology gives the clue: In males, the animus is generally dominant as the ego with the anima in the shadow, while in females the reverse is true. Apply it at the collective level, so each of the cultures sees the Shadow in the other... something that gives rise to distaste, discomfort, "looking down upon" (as the same valuing is not made) and even outright hate sometimes. This is the destructive part, where matter and antimatter annihilate. The idea is to understand how it works, and then see how the two can be aligned at an individual level so that it becomes constructive.

When a person from the west lands in the east, the first evidence he sees of this system reversal is probably the traffic in the airport (provided the flight hasn't been delayed). Quite predictably, it would appear chaotic, and one gets no bearings. A similar pattern would be prevalent in many different areas, (hygiene is a pet peeve of westerners), the mechanical systems and their efficiency aren't too important. However, the feeling/psychological aspect works in harmony... warm welcomes and hospitality, friendly and open talk, all of it is mostly genuine. And families remain resilient to any changes, in fact, the idea that anything can affect family is itself alien. If an easterner sees a sign saying "Do Not Park", it doesn't mean much, unless he can see why one mustn't park there. Even if he does see, it is assumed others would "adjust"... so it is no big deal. Here is where every individual behaves differently, and to the westerner, chaotically. Litter, safety, security... the list evolves from the same principle. ... re=related

Now if a person from the east comes to the west, one sees the reverse happening, the sudden lack of family and cultural structures makes the situation incomprehensible, and you would find many an Eastern chap complaining about the chaotic nature of the family system and the loneliness of focusing predominantly on work. The concept that work would mean the family has to suffer would be weird and unworthy, not at all expected. One cannot take individual liberty in case of family in the east, just as one cannot take individual liberty regarding traffic rules in the west. Shadow projection generally results either in rejection or assimilation, unless one recognizes it. Imagine the notions of privacy inverted... whom you marry is not just your private business, but "everybody's" business. But if you break a rule as a favor to a friend, not many would go and report it to a senior. In fact, if it feels ok, nobody has a problem.

Another point: if the anima or animus is not integrated completely, you would generally see it projected onto the other collective. So if one is able to identify these valuing systems and how something valuable in one has no value in the other, then internally the complexes would talk, instead of arguing. The animus aspect of the spirit cannot develop further without resolving this dichotomy. This would form the new rules for privacy... and the boundary of free will of an individual. Where does the freedom of one stop and another's begin?
It is time.

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Re: Society and Rules

Post by LoneBear » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:40 am

Heck, my mom complains about the lack of close family ties all the time. Wasn't always that way. It is only recently that the family system has been lost in America.

Since it died during my generation, looking back I would say that it started falling apart around the late 1960's with the "hippie" (Wanderer) movement, where traditional "blue" family values were replaced with the "green" human bond ones--depersonalizing and decentralizing the concept of love and respect in the local family group for tree-hugging ones. Most people couldn't handle the jump of 2 vMemes and America fell back into "orange"; the corporation became the surrogate family to replace the damaged real one.

Watch some of the old B&W movies--the main plot is boy meets girl, they fall in love and raise a family. Look at the movies today, glorifying technology and "job comes first." I saw one a while back, one of those "disaster" movies (in more ways than one)... Volcano, or something like that, where all the main characters abandoned their family obligations for their "job"--they has a bigger duty to the town, city, etc. Same thing happens in war films with "patriotism", where you dump family and friends for country.

Epitomized by: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." --Spock

Back when I was a kid, I cannot remember ever meeting a single India-Indian... India was what you saw on Jonny Quest and old Tarzan films--a wild place full of elephants and mystical people wearing turbans (yes, I know that Indian's don't actually wear them--that's Hollywood!) But back then, trans-world travel still took weeks or months. But Indians would have loved America in the early 20th century--we had the same values here as you do there.

The projection aspects of the shadow that you mentioned happen when someone is having trouble adapting to a societal vMeme shift... more "vMeme Shock". America is primarily "orange", corporate. India, with family values and "truth force" gods is still primarily "blue".

Indians coming to America are shocked because they have little to no experience with the "entrepreneurial" valuing system, and all the "laws" required to make it work. They hit the "dark night of the soul" until they become "Americanized" and start to comprehend the new values. Unfortunately, the "gotta have it now" generation tends to forget the lessons of the past, so they ignore the "blue" background once "orange" takes over, which results in a loss of cultural identity.

Americans going to India have had prior experience with "blue" and since it is a known valuing system, it is categorized as being "primitive" by orange standards. That's the way Tier 1 works... got to force your vMeme on everyone else.
gopi wrote:This would form the new rules for privacy... and the boundary of free will of an individual. Where does the freedom of one stop and another's begin?
At the boundary where compassion meets moderation.

As one moves through the vMemes, the scope of your actions increases. In red, you only affect a few people (tribe or gang), but in green, they are effecting the entire world with their policy decisions. More laws are needed to limit the damage those Tier 1 values can do, since they don't actually see the larger picture. So freedom decreases as you move through Tier 1.

Tier 2 starts the reverse process--even though the scope of influence still continues to grow, one can better see the bigger picture, and account for many things that Tier 1 values are blinded to. Freedom becomes self-imposed law--not externally enforced law. Sure, a Tier 1 person would be happy to build a nuclear waste dump in a schoolyard, if it were "profitable" or "god told them to". But to a Tier 2 person, it would be totally unacceptable--they would not need a law saying "can't build a nuclear waste dump in a schoolyard."

Freedom is not a fixed boundary, it is a fluid one depending on the levels of interaction of those involved (people, family, society, culture, race, species, etc).

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