Philosophy

Kheb is a monastery, remote but not secluded, where people can have an alternative to the mercantile system that is imposed upon society by our political and educational institutions. It is a physical PLACE, and this topic is to discuss the facilities, structures, accommodations, and other physical constructs needed to successfully implement the ideas behind the Sanctuary Project, as well as the "political" structures of a new type of monastic system.
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LoneBear
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Philosophy

Post by LoneBear » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:30 pm

Here are some philosophical concepts that I got from a number of sources, indicating the basic problems with humanity and some of the ideas for improvement. Do you agree?

Muggles

# "Give a monkey control of his environment, and he'll fill the world with bananas."
—Dr. Who, Patrick Troughton

# The gratification of pleasure is the sole motive of action."
—Shockeye, Dr. Who episode, The Two Doctors

# Circular logic will only make you dizzy.

# "No one is capable of moral decisions, so they make laws that preclude the necessity of having to think for themselves."
—Diana, BBC series: Waiting for God

Improvements

# Keep future generations in mind when designing systems. Think a century ahead.

# Get rid of the shepard/flock notion, which is nothing more than slavery. Replace with the social memory concept, people choosing to work together, voluntarily, to achieve goals.

# Go beyond the anthropomorphic concept of God.

# Don't live in the past, pioneer the future.

# Minimum regulation; if you need to be constantly told what to do, you aren't seeing the patterns.

# Living together not as a "community", but more of a "colony".

# Utilize real goals, versus surrogate activities (TV, films, Virtual Reality, video games, etc).

# Must have the freedom to control the circumstances of your own survival, and that of your family.

# Women need social power. Men need "The Hunt".

# Eliminate blame, or the requirements of "legal fault".

# Eliminate consent by default (the current UCC -- Uniform Commercial Code, where if you don't disagree with something within 30 days, whether you know about it or not, you agree to it).

# Be comfortable with who you are, sex, race, creed, etc., and stop trying to be someone else. "Show your colors with pride."

# There is no difference between "The Creator" and the creation. Care for one; care for both.
Last edited by LoneBear on Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Alluvion » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:37 pm

" No one is capable of moral decisions, so they make laws that preclude the necessity of having to think for themselves."
—Diana, BBC series: Waiting for God "

the great masters, both known and unknown, have become moral beings - they make the difficult decisions which bring them farther along a path towards self-mastery, intelligence and responsibility. Since most of us are not, nor are we surrounded by, saints and masters, fear these decisions.

"# Keep future generations in mind when designing systems. Think a century ahead. "
this is a tenant of sustainable design - which is becoming increasingly important in global design. As an architect I can become certified as a sustainable specialist, which is becoming increasingly necessary to be part of any functioning design body. Not that I am interested in so-called wonders of the corporate world, but this principle is beginning to make headway in the fields of design, even though it isn't in politics.

'# Utilize real goals, versus surrogate activities (TV, films, Virtual Reality, video games, etc). "

describe, for me, what a 'real goal' is? what about for you? what is a 'real goal' ? who is judge and jury on this?


lists like these are interesting.. I like to see where I get stuck or things jump out, shows me what issues I need to work with..
thanks!
_a

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Post by Starlight* » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:07 pm

The colorful butter-ful yin/yang circle. Catchy!
Alluvion wrote: the great masters, both known and unknown, have become moral beings - they make the difficult decisions which bring them farther along a path towards self-mastery, intelligence and responsibility. Since most of us are not, nor are we surrounded by, saints and masters, fear these decisions
Fears keeps one from the saints and masters. You find the master within. I would say, what you describe is without (a projection).
Lonebear wrote:# Living together not as a "community", but more of a "colony".
As you stated, a few lines above; I think it's a matter of choice.

What about a community within a colony.


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Post by Starlight* » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:19 pm

Lonebear wrote:# The gratification of pleasure is the sole motive of action."
—Shockeye, Dr. Who episode, The Two Doctors
Very catchy.

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Post by LoneBear » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:31 pm

Alluvion wrote:
LoneBear wrote:# Utilize real goals, versus surrogate activities (TV, films, Virtual Reality, video games, etc).
describe, for me, what a 'real goal' is? what about for you? what is a 'real goal' ? who is judge and jury on this?
"Real Goal", "What is a 'real goal'"--The reference comes from Industrial Society and Its Future:
Freedom Club wrote:For many if not most people, surrogate activities are less satisfying than the pursuit of real goals (that is, goals that people would want to attain even if their need for the power process were already fulfilled).
"What about for you"--Scientific exploration is my surrogate activity; my "real goals" are my work with Nature, people and the Altermundi.

"Who is judge and jury on this"--Natural laws, which only have "real goals" and not surrogate activities, which are a creation of man.

I recommend reading the article above for a complete description. It is on the Antiquatis Library.

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Post by LoneBear » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:54 pm

Starlight* wrote:The colorful butter-ful yin/yang circle. Catchy!
When you hit 1000 posts, you'll have one, too.
Starlight* wrote:
Alluvion wrote: the great masters, both known and unknown, have become moral beings - they make the difficult decisions which bring them farther along a path towards self-mastery, intelligence and responsibility. Since most of us are not, nor are we surrounded by, saints and masters, fear these decisions
Fears keeps one from the saints and masters. You find the master within. I would say, what you describe is without (a projection).
As I've learned from the Antiquus, everyone has the capacity to become a saint or master on their own, without any help. They did it... being the "first ones" in the local universe to become conscious, there simply weren't any saints or masters around to help.

But with the Vorlon Confederation and the Shadow Ori kabitzing in everything, I can certainly understand your point about the limiting factor of fear... you are taught that you can't do it alone. Or is that just a bad assumption? No wonder the information on "Keb" was concealed in the Archive.
Starlight* wrote:
Lonebear wrote:# Living together not as a "community", but more of a "colony".
As you stated, a few lines above; I think it's a matter of choice.
What about a community within a colony.
I don't think there is any place for socialism within the colony structure, because of its destructive influence where the "good of the community" outweighs all.

Fort Collins, Colorado, is a good example of a community gone insane. I call it "Tentacle Acres" (from Spongebob), because you are either assimilated or destroyed by excessive regulation (see quote from Diana). Individuality, and hence the growth of the individual, is repressed for the common good of conformity.

Mankind moves forward through the achievements of the individual, not the placidity of the collective.

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Post by Alluvion » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:49 am

LoneBear wrote:
Alluvion wrote:
LoneBear wrote:# Utilize real goals, versus surrogate activities (TV, films, Virtual Reality, video games, etc).
describe, for me, what a 'real goal' is? what about for you? what is a 'real goal' ? who is judge and jury on this?
"Real Goal", "What is a 'real goal'"--The reference comes from Industrial Society and Its Future:
Freedom Club wrote:For many if not most people, surrogate activities are less satisfying than the pursuit of real goals (that is, goals that people would want to attain even if their need for the power process were already fulfilled).
(1)"What about for you"--Scientific exploration is my surrogate activity; my "real goals" are my work with Nature, people and the Altermundi.

(2)"Who is judge and jury on this"--Natural laws, which only have "real goals" and not surrogate activities, which are a creation of man.

I recommend reading the article above for a complete description. It is on the Antiquatis Library.
1. - so real goals are modeled by the masters and saints of the past, who came to a great realization about the power plays of 3rd density and dropped them from the menu? I have no real goals, I don't know what mine are. I've not had any honest experience but the power play so I am not aware of the measuring stick for them.

2. - needs vs wants then?

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Post by Starlight* » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:34 pm

LoneBear wrote: As I've learned from the Antiquus, everyone has the capacity to become a saint or master on their own, without any help. They did it... being the "first ones" in the local universe to become conscious, there simply weren't any saints or masters around to help.
That's stretching it a bit to much. There's more to it.
LoneBear wrote:But with the Vorlon Confederation and the Shadow Ori kabitzing in everything, I can certainly understand your point about the limiting factor of fear... you are taught that you can't do it alone. No wonder the information on "Keb" was concealed in the Archive
I have always done it alone, and why Keb was revealed.
LoneBear wrote:Or is that just a bad assumption?
Well, that's up to you to decide.


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Post by LoneBear » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:40 pm

The original "Philosophy" post could still use some refinement. I wrote a lot of this before I was familiar with the concept of Spiral Dynamics, where the valuing systems of people can be identified in Tiers and Memes.

One of the larger problems with any social endeavor is personal interaction and growth. In business, you have a well-defined "job" to do, and seldom depart from the job description into other areas. Since I have primarily have done "consulting" for my job, I have been exposed to the opposite--having to be an expert with a wide area of expertise. The primary reason a business will spend money on a consultant is to fix things.

Most of the situations I have gotten called in to are because things have gotten so bad that the managers and employees, due to the specific job functions, can no longer see how the system works as a larger whole. So they call in someone who can see the larger whole, and tell the smaller wholes what they need to do/fix in order to get the "machine" cranking again.

One of the philosophies that I have noticed becoming more and more popular these days with the "cookie-cutter" mentality of the Universities, is the turn to "expertise"--you learn one and only one way to do something. Alternate thought is forbidden. You must be an "expert" in one field only. When something breaks, you call in other experts and make committees, waste lots of time and money, then call in a consultant to fix it.

Definition of "expert": a person who learns more and more, about less and less, until they know everything about nothing.

I believe that one of the basic philosophies that should be taught in such a community is that a person can do ANYTHING they put their mind to, and they SHOULD DO IT. Teach/Learn and Learn/Teach is a very basic part of the system. This may drift a bit into the "Education" topic, but I consider it to be a philosophic choice--learn to learn, not to avoid it. In the Sanctuary, everyone should help with everything, not because they "have to", but for the learning experience, itself.

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Re: Philosophy

Post by Arcelius » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:12 pm

LoneBear wrote:# Get rid of the shepard/flock notion, which is nothing more than slavery. Replace with the social memory concept, people choosing to work together, voluntarily, to achieve goals.
For people who grow up in a Christian household, getting rid of the shepherd/flock notion can be quite difficult. If you are always on the flock side of things, you might not see the other side. It may seem that the shepherds have more privilege, etc and that may well be true (usually is). At the same time, the shepherd cannot exist without the flock and the flock (or members thereof) can successfully make demands on the shepherd. It is a paradox of the master/slave relationship (STS) that the master can only rise so far above the slaves. Then the master will be either held back, must raise the slaves with him/her, or must dump the slaves and get better ones. Maybe there are others. I can only think of the 3 right now. Of course, there is also the point where you realize that the whole master/slave thing is a waste of time and replace it with something more enjoyable like true STO.

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Re: Philosophy

Post by LoneBear » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:03 pm

aluxon wrote:For people who grow up in a Christian household, getting rid of the shepherd/flock notion can be quite difficult. If you are always on the flock side of things, you might not see the other side.
Perhaps it's time to "get the flock outta there". :-)

Third density is the "density of choice"; it's your choice to be shepherd or sheeple. One of the things Sanctuary is supposed to do is to make the information and resources available to you, so you CAN make that choice as a knowing and intelligent act.
aluxon wrote:It may seem that the shepherds have more privilege, etc and that may well be true (usually is). At the same time, the shepherd cannot exist without the flock and the flock (or members thereof) can successfully make demands on the shepherd. It is a paradox of the master/slave relationship (STS) that the master can only rise so far above the slaves. Then the master will be either held back, must raise the slaves with him/her, or must dump the slaves and get better ones. Maybe there are others. I can only think of the 3 right now. Of course, there is also the point where you realize that the whole master/slave thing is a waste of time and replace it with something more enjoyable like true STO.
One can think of it as master/slave, or just teacher/student. The difference needs to be understood, the former usually being unconscious or karmic, and the latter being a conscious choice. During childhood, you are forced to attend school (involuntary servitude) and listen to the teacher, whom, at least in the old days, could even inflict physical punishment if you didn't do what they said.

One can be a slave to many things, not just chains around your ankle. Many people are slaves to their fears, which dominate them totally.

I agree with you that in such relationships, there must be joint growth, or things come apart. As a priest friend of mine used to say, "relationships are created and maintained for the satisfaction of complementary neurotic structures. When satisfaction is not forthcoming, the relationship is terminated."

This is the very principle behind "Grades" in school--theoretically, each year the students should outgrow the teacher, and move on to someone who can keep the learning process going.

There used to be a second division in each grade, a "level of competence" division which I don't believe they allow in schools any more. In my day, we had the A, B and C divisions of each subject, A for the students whom excelled, B for the average, and C for the slow learners. This promoted the best learning environment.

What I believe it comes down to is this: everyone is master and slave; teacher and student. The only way out of that dichotomy is to dump both the STS and STO concepts, which was the topic about "Keb" in the General Discussion forum--a third path where one becomes neither and both STS/STO. As long as there is light, there will be dark. As long as there is dark, there will be light.

"I am grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are grey; we stand between the darkness and the light." --Delenn

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Re: Philosophy

Post by Arcelius » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:14 pm

LoneBear wrote:One can think of it as master/slave, or just teacher/student. The difference needs to be understood, the former usually being unconscious or karmic, and the latter being a conscious choice. During childhood, you are forced to attend school (involuntary servitude) and listen to the teacher, whom, at least in the old days, could even inflict physical punishment if you didn't do what they said.
I would prefer to think of it as teacher/student since for me the master/slave relationship has too many control overtones. As well, the with a teacher/student relationship, the teacher and student roles can easily be reversed unlike with a control-based master/slave relationship. The teacher/student seems more equal. I think I may be displaying a certain word bias that is irrelevent.
LoneBear wrote:I agree with you that in such relationships, there must be joint growth, or things come apart. As a priest friend of mine used to say, "relationships are created and maintained for the satisfaction of complementary neurotic structures. When satisfaction is not forthcoming, the relationship is terminated."
As a former member of the clergy, I appreciate the quote and its accuracy. Former because I tired of trying to bend myself to provide the complementary neurotic structures.
LoneBear wrote:There used to be a second division in each grade, a "level of competence" division which I don't believe they allow in schools any more. In my day, we had the A, B and C divisions of each subject, A for the students whom excelled, B for the average, and C for the slow learners. This promoted the best learning environment.
There was this structure as well when I was in school. It has been dropped everywhere I've been since though. I guess it was detrimental to children's self-esteem (the explanation I heard).
LoneBear wrote:What I believe it comes down to is this: everyone is master and slave; teacher and student. The only way out of that dichotomy is to dump both the STS and STO concepts, which was the topic about "Keb" in the General Discussion forum--a third path where one becomes neither and both STS/STO. As long as there is light, there will be dark. As long as there is dark, there will be light.

"I am grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are grey; we stand between the darkness and the light." --Delenn
I believe that when the STS/STO dichotomy is resolved, the whole issue of service itself no longer exists. From reading the Ra material, it seems that this typically happens in 6th density; the density of unity. However, I believe that it is possible to do so as early as 4th density. I also believe that there will be those on this planet who will make the 3rd choice and they will form a group somewhat distinct from the STO one. I think that the archive may have been left here in the expectation that some on Earth would try to make the 3rd choice and would appreciate some assistance.

For the "grey" one, the grey does not truly exist. The grey is whatever combination of light and darkness is desired at the time even to true light and true darkness. It provides a great degree of flexibility in expressing the self.

The question then becomes: What is the central issue after service assuming that there is one?

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Re: Philosophy

Post by LoneBear » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 pm

aluxon wrote:The question then becomes: What is the central issue after service assuming that there is one?
GOOD question... don't have an answer, but I do have some clues.

My study of the information left by the L-Race reveals one, major consistency in the structure of the Universe... it is all geared to promote the evolution of consciousness. One of the things people miss when considering the concept of "Unity" is that unity is NOT zero... it is POSITIVE, meaning that there is always some underlying "net motion" pushing things along in a specific direction, whether we call that the expansion of the Universe (1st density), Evolution (2nd density), or transmigration of souls (3rd density).

The "service" dichotomy appears to be one of the major tools used, at least in the lower densities, to promote this evolution. We call it oxidation states, gender, or service. Lots of names for that basic yin/yang dichotomy--but it IS a dichotomy, and one used to promote growth. The "service" path seems to result in only one of two possible outcomes, either one "assimilates" or "gets assimilated" by the path they choose.

From what Ra and Q'uo have revealed with the 4th density, the same service dichotomy still exists, except rather than social groups or nations, entire planetary systems are involved--the wars of angels and demons (or the B5 version, Vorlons and Shadows).

5th density indicates far fewer STS type entities--but very powerful ones. I would assume that was a result of the "King of the Hill" syndrome, where the baddest entity has assimilated the others into itself.

The 6th density "density of unity" would indicate that somebody "won", aka "One".

I believe the issue of "service" will always be around in some form, as long as we exist within a free will Logos. It may actually be what differs a "free will" logos from the non-"free will" logos, because within the latter, there are no decisions nor choices that can create the dichotomy.

The central issue, in my opinion, will always be one of the evolution of consciousness--in whatever form it takes.

"The Human Race"
Is it really a competition?

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Re: Philosophy

Post by Arcelius » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:13 pm

LoneBear wrote:
aluxon wrote:The question then becomes: What is the central issue after service assuming that there is one?
<snip>
The central issue, in my opinion, will always be one of the evolution of consciousness--in whatever form it takes.
I can see that being the central issue. Perhaps that is what the logoi are directly working towards with the sub-logoi and sub-sub-logoi (etc) helping out with various pieces.
LoneBear wrote:"The Human Race"
Is it really a competition?
The way some people live life you would think it was a "Winner take all" event.

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Point Plane and Unity

Post by Gopi » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:08 pm

LoneBear wrote:The 6th density "density of unity" would indicate that somebody "won", aka "One".
I would say that some win, some lose. Or, BOTH STS and STO have to win AND lose. They lose part of their own polarity and gain some of the other. Interesting how the point-plane duality is so rampant...

* STS = point, all service directed to a single point of consciousness.
* STO = plane, all service directed to every point of consciousness.
* Keb = Scalar regime, all service is directed to consciousness itself... no points or planes about it, though you can assign them if you want

I have to wonder though, what lies beyond? Say the Theta Universe (which the Els ascended to) has been reached, and explored. If that is just a gigantic Octave structure in itself, then the Eta being the seventh letter of the alphabet (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon, zeta, eta) Then maybe the reason the Els' Universe hopping was such a big deal was not because they just left this octave, but because they finally left the entire Octave of octaves.

So Theta would be another Alpha in the making.

I also feel we are somewhere missing half the story, probably due to our yang bias. We speak of the first distortion being the Free Will. Following the same pattern, there should be a distortion of opposite polarity... Love or the animating principle, the activating one. So, if the Universe split up into two like this, then we see that the splitting up has given rise to a pattern like this:

* Love only
* Love/Free Will
* Free Will/ Love
* Free Will only

Now, we notice that the two reciprocal aspects of Free Will are the motion and linkage, the physical and the metaphysical universe. I wonder what the reciprocal aspects of "Love" are. Have we come to a similar full circle as the conventional scientists, who understood only the material sector and still have no clue about the cosmic sector? If that is the case, the ladies are right, I have no clue what "Love" is! :D

Parallel to the description of a "Beginning" to the Universe, as such described in the Ra material, we notice the beginnings everywhere... that of life, that of self awareness, and so on. If the Universe has split itself into infinitely many independent entities (notice the plane analogy) then as a consequence of Motion being the "datum" one can only expect the reverse also to occur... the "many" becoming the "One", the individual entities all reaching a singular consciousness. There might be some truth to the concept of "reaching God" after all, if one thinks in terms of evolution.

That gives rise to an interesting idea... we ARE, literally, the Creator!

* Point = God
* Plane = All of us individual entities
* Keb = Creation/Creator

Cheerio...

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Post by zenmaster » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:33 pm

Interesting post Gopi. I think a reflection about the understanding of "love" is a good way to reveal the complexity (or simplicity) of the subject of polarity. We tend to understand love best through demonstrative acts that coincide with our values. However, this way of viewing love is also done with a yang bias.

With regards to the yin or linkage/connective principle, I am reminded of Giordano Bruno, who understood this aspect of love not only as a linkage, but as a binder or "vincula". If you take a look at how free will is expressed in terms of this binding (e.g. Eros and Magic in the Renaissance) I think the yin aspect becomes more apparent.

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