symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Discussion of Science Fiction motifs, symbols and allegory.
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Alluvion
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symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by Alluvion » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:35 am

to begin with, just read the title! a crucible, a forge! I want to wait until someone else here has seen the film and thought about it before I blab blab BLAB away but I must say: i've never had a better time at a movie, ever. I bought opening night tickets and there were 11 screens in town showing it, all packed to the max and that itself was thrilling.

But the movie is just loaded! LOADED! its like...4th density, archetypal symbols - and not lost in the...visual exploitation of a fantasy world like the previous films. This film really acknowledges that the world is established and we are not dealing with pure show and tell anymore, instead we are dealing with a story and emotion and thought. Just...GOOD! it was great! I'd love to just pour forth but I don't want to get into the details until someone is interested in bouncing off all my crazy JK rowling nerdiness.


psyched!
-a

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by sky » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:43 pm

I'm going tomorrow....I CAN'T WAIT! I want to see it more then my 8yr. old does... :lol: Chronicles of Narnia is coming out soon too...that should be interesting. MY 3yr. old was watching a cartoon this morning called Young Einsteins...I couldn't believe my ears on what they were talking about and the visuals they were using. I saw sacred geometry, astronomy, sound vibration techniques and color symbology through out the entire show, another one did a whole lesson on egypt and the symbols involved with the pyramid...WOW...Kids sure do have an advantage these days. I'll be back with a review on the movie tomorrow! :D Glad to see another adult appreciates Harry Potter as much as I do...

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by Alluvion » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:16 am

<---huge narnia fanatic. The Chronicles and the Wrinkle In Time Series are my childhood staples. I can't get enough, i keep them around so I can re read them every couple of years or so.

Glad to be reffered to as an adult as well : )

-a

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by sky » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:48 pm

AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I LOVED IT...I'm totally in awe right now and speechless....sort of... :wink: Was that really for kids? seriously...I kept seeing stuff that hit home, and then hit home again, and then again and again and again. The serpent and death and the dragons and mermaids! Oh my!!! The goblet of 'blue' fire.... 3 trials by fire and water and was the maze of the mind? yes yes of course! The goal for the cup , the chosen FOUR that were 'represented' too that competed for the one...and the comment at the end when everyone departs about being of different races and tongues yet breathing the same breathe and being 'ONE"...RIGHT ON Harry Potter!!!!! I give it two thumbs pointing 'UP'!!!!

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by Starlight* » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:59 pm

Raytheonsky wrote:AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I LOVED IT...I'm totally in awe right now and speechless....sort of... :wink: Was that really for kids? seriously...I kept seeing stuff that hit home, and then hit home again, and then again and again and again. The serpent and death and the dragons and mermaids! Oh my!!! The goblet of 'blue' fire.... 3 trials by fire and water and was the maze of the mind? yes yes of course! The goal for the cup , the chosen FOUR that were 'represented' too that competed for the one...and the comment at the end when everyone departs about being of different races and tongues yet breathing the same breathe and being 'ONE"...RIGHT ON Harry Potter!!!!! I give it two thumbs pointing 'UP'!!!!
Hi, Raytheonsky and all!

Now you got me going! I can hardly wait to see it! Good thing you didn't give it all away.

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by Tulan » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:51 pm

Pour forth, I won't be seeing it for a while. Discuss the symbols and motifs you see in the movie, also keep in mind to include the scene you noticed it in so those of us who havn't seen it can make the reference and possibly contribute a different view.

Engage in the act of thinking, and share the tales of the journey this movie represents.
Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song. - Kosh Naranek

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by LoneBear » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:22 pm

IMHO, the entire film was summarized by this one line...
Dumbledore wrote:Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy.
for that time is upon us, personally and collectively.

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Re: symbols and allegory: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Post by Alluvion » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:20 pm

i picked up on that too, couldn't beleive it when I heard it - this is our mythos, as beings, which we have forgotten for quite some time.


to me the 4th density stuff is more accurately upper level 3rd density, the fact that these people do magic and exist in a world were spatio-temporal 'rules' are seemingly irrational, but are simply more metaphysical, which I beleive is part of the magical working - working to remove illusion to see truth rather than digging for it buried in the pile...

so in the movie, the amount of darkness present is part of what makes it real. and perhaps i should not use the term darkness, which is rather benign to me, but cruel and manipulative bellicosity. The sts/sto dichotomy is so incredibly obvious and even more appropriate since this film deals with adepts and those working with intelligent energy.

what always puzzled me was how a spell worked and why you need the wand and the word to activate it - wouldn't it be more efficent AND strategic to just direct it with the will, through the mind? But what I surmise the logic is is that the wand is the tool which collects and focuses the intelligent energy of the being and the word is the conscious choice to direct that energy with the will, pure adept work - spells or no spells.

What is missing in the book/movie is any emphasis on the conscioussness/spiritual activation that we tend to associate with the work of the adept. I am interested to know if this energy is available to all in abundance starting out, being born with full opportunities to perform 'magic' or what works in conscioussness would need to happen to unlock levels of use - if any (as in, how would that issue be resolved in the harry potter world).


back to the sts/sto - I see cruelty, manipulation and the twisted psychosis of these individuals as wrong. its hard for me not to because its something i am afraid of both possesing and using - something i clearly still associate with the sts path, even though ra speaks of it as something on the same plane as the 'good' side. What seems to level the playing feild is my own sense of acceptance and understanding that all things lead back to love/light even if they appear to be traveling as far from as they can - though thats what makes infinite love/light infinite - its eternal and absolute prescence, regardless of form.



and i have to say the uses of the curses scares the hell out of me, some part of me is very convinced by the production in the movies that the avada kedavra killing curse is an actual killing curse. my reaction to its use in the movie was almost to cover my ears, like i'd heard something so discordant, blasphemous and...un-natural that I shouldn't be hearing it. Prior to this the magic used in the films was more for show and tell and rarely carried any ethical/spiritual weight - but finnaly one does and thats what gets me about it, it involves direct and powerful ethical consequences. I'd like to see more spells that do so on the more receptive and gentle side of the path - like a healing spell for example, just to balance out the imagery of the narrative. It seems like the white/black magick is kind of imbalanced and there is black magic and varying degrees of trickery and games-of-skill. Seeing more of that would blow my mind, and I probably need to reread the last few books.

wait, come to mind - there is one spell called the unbreakable vow and has in it the ethical/spiritual dimension missing from most of the parlor trick spells - its a spell which binds two adepts together in a deal and if violated in anyway results in the death of the deal breaker. While the choice is kind of no choice, it is also a yes which speaks to ethics/spirituality.


all in all I just found this film so beleivable, most of the time my mind was going 'yep! its correct, its just like that!' - and thats kind of what blows my mind, and wasn't apparent in the first 3 films - it was still much more fantasyland and makebeleive, for some reason the element of makebeleive was, to me, less required. Part of that is probably that many of the actors in this film are incredibly talented and bumped up the 'realness' by being people who truly beleive that world exists and brought that to the screen. Also, four movies means its becomign more familiar so we can start to move past the show-and-tell style and get to a real narrative and access mythos/archetypal foundations. And this movie was perfect for that, being the pivot point of the series.

what things do you all pull from it?

-a

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